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Thread: Redirect the Hate

  1. #11
    Don´t cut Iraq or even Iran out of the picture just yet.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Scorpion's Avatar
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    Yeah, Hussein was all to happy about this. GWB's Dad should have finished him off with the Gulf war.

    We won't hear who's going to be attacked until fter it happens, so I wish the press would stop asking qustions of the Press Secretary that the rest of us know he's not gong to answer for security reasons. These reporters remnd me of children, asking the same questions over and over.

    ~Rus

    "Because you're not promised tomorrow." ~ Stuck Mojo

  3. #13
    gpbullock:

    This morning the Afghan government basically requested that we not attack them. Should we honor this? I say yes... under the right conditions. Tell them that if they can offer up Osama bin Laden and his colleagues we will not. Set a deadline. If they do not agree to the conditions, then apply military pressure. We should not kill first, ask questions later. Their are currently US bases close enough to send missiles to Afghanistan. Send missles to destroy their major agricultural areas and other sources of food. If people have to die, limit the number of casualties.

    rdf:

    My statements were not, and are not, passive. Force does not always win. I am too young to remember, but I believe the Vietnam war ended in a stalemate. Like I said above, aim for agricultural instead of civilian areas. The people will live, but they will have to struggle harder at survival. It will not be a "slap on the wrist", rather a "mess with us and see what happens... that was just a small demonstration of our true power."


    alan:

    Israel has been in a pretty much constant state of war for my entire life. That attitude is a way of life, not something they chose to do with free will.


    Rus:

    Let's use your bully analogy. Growing up, I was younger and smaller than everyone else in my grade. In sixth grade a "bully" initiated a fight with me. I put him in a headlock and kept him grounded and unable to attack until we were seperated. Did he mess with me again? Nope. Strategy is important. The best offense is a good defense. Even though that is an old phrase, it is true.


    ----------------------------------

    I feel that people should lead by example. Let America do that. Set the example that if you mess with us, we will persevere and prosper while serving you your retribution.

    People learn. A bully becomes a bully by picking on people weaker than them. Eventually they will have such an ego that they believe they are strong enough to take on anyone. Then they fight someone who they vastly underestimated and they fail miserably and are often humiliated. Then they bully no more.

    -Steven

  4. #14
    there is no punishment severe enough for those who are responsible for acts of terrorism.

    My biggest question is: how do you stop an enemy who has no regard for their own life? If someone has been brainwashed and death is not a deterrent, it would seem almost impossible to completely be rid of them and still live in a free society?

  5. #15
    Senior Member rdf's Avatar
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    Steven, I don't think america is the type of country to go after another country's food supply, it's agriculture. We're talking about a real rugged country here, and its crops are what keeps all the afghans alive. We don't want to starve the citizens, that's just not right.

    We have to go in there militarily, take em over and root the evil out, cell by cell. Might have to in a few countries (those with governments who give aid to the pukes) in the gulf. In other, civilized countries (those with governments that are humane), we have the world opinion on our side for a freakin change, and with their help we can root out all the cells in the rest of the world, again, one by one.

    We do this for two reasons, for blood vengeance, and also for the simple justice of it all.

    Some might balk at the vengeance element here, as they believe that vengeance belongs to the lord god only. But god never had a huge dagger slammed deep down into his or her heart, spilling his life's blood. America has, so we get vengeance this time god.

    America has stood alone a lot in this world, and mostly not by our choice. We have many faults, and sometimes we seem and act as clumsy as the giant that we not only act like, but actually really are.
    And I don't believe there is a country on earth we haven't helped, we are so very giving, yet when tragedy has stricken here in our past, there was never was much news about such things from other countries. Have I been blind all this time? Have I turn a deaf ear? I hope to god lots of countries have helped us in the past. I just need somebody to refresh my memory I guess.

    But this time, humanity took a hit, and be it from the gentle kindness that civilized humanity posseses, or be it because they all realize it could have been the Eifel Tower, Big Ben in london, or other 100+ story tall buildings in china.

    I hope and believe it's the kindness that drives the other countries. Regardless, we can do the world's people a favor, all of us together and lead by america, wounded and pissed

  6. #16

    APPEASEMENT LIVES

    From AndrewSullivan.com:

    APPEASEMENT LIVES: A classic piece of appeasement appeared today under the guise of restraint and reason. My former colleague and friend Robert Wright argues in Slate against unilateral American action against the forces and states that have just declared war upon the United States. "[K]illing Islamic fundamentalist terrorists (which the perpetrators almost certainly were) can be not just ineffective, but counterproductive." This is the familiar argument of those who believe that these acts of fanaticism cannot be avenged without spawning more fanaticism. Kill one suicide bomber and you create four more. Wright's argument is that our new enemies are "simply not susceptible to normal deterrence." If Wright means by this that the indoctrinated handful of young fanatics who will always remain a threat cannot be deterred, he may be right. That is why these people must be hunted down and assassinated, and why we must kill any and all who surround or abet them. But the states and regimes that survive by fostering this evil surely can be deterred - and not by polite threats or warnings. In fact, the absence of a serious deadly response will only convince them to continue to foster the evil in their midst, and it will only get worse. Wright entertains the fallacy that because we can never eliminate all threats, we cannot eliminate any. His argument is simply defeatism. In 1940, many similarly well-intentioned urged Chamberlain to sue for peace, as whole swathes of the British establishment wanted, and as narrow British self-interest might even have required. Look what the consequences of war were back in 1940: the destruction of almost every major city in Britain. But Churchill was right to fight - even though it meant the deaths of hundreds of thousands of British soldiers and civilians. And he was right to say that there would be no surrender even if the entire city of London were reduced to rubble. A shocking statement that, isn't it? But it reflects an iron will that we must now summon for ourselves.


    THIS ISN'T TERRORISM, IT'S WAR: Besides, this enemy is not simply a band of thugs, but several regimes that aid and abet these people and have celebrated this atrocity. These regimes have declared war on the United States, and it is time we repay the favor. The precedent is not the Sudan under Clinton or even Libya under Reagan. Under Clinton, these regimes were encouraged. Under Reagan, they were scared, but, under Reagan, they had not yet launched this kind of war. Now they have - even daring to target one of the citadels of our democracy: the White House. This is the most grievous declaration of war against America in history. What Wright hasn't absorbed, I think, is that we are no longer fighting terrorism. We are at war. And we are not at war with any old regime or even a handful of terrorists. We are at war with an evil that will only grow unless it is opposed with all the might at our command. We must wage that war with a ferocity that doesn't merely scare these monsters but terrifies them. Merely murdering bin Laden is a laughable response. If this new war can be waged with partners - specifically Russia, NATO, China - so much the better. But if not, the United States must act alone - and as soon as we can be assured of complete success. There are times when it is not inappropriate or even immoral to use overwhelming power merely to terrify and avenge. Read your Machiavelli. We must shock them more than they have shocked us. We must do so with a force not yet seen in human history. Then we can begin to build a future of greater deterrence. I repeat: we are not responding to terrorism any more. We are at war. And war requires no restraint, simply massive and unanswerable force until the enemy is not simply defeated but unconditionally destroyed. To hesitate for fear of reprisal is to have capitulated before we have even begun. I don't believe Americans want to capitulate to anyone. The only question is whether we will get the leadership now to deal with this or whether we will have to endure even worse atrocities before a real leader emerges.

  7. #17

    Two things

    rdf:
    I know America is not the type of country that would bomb agriculture, but... those who have the will to live will maintain their existance. Regardless of what action we take, it will not be American. Killing anyone, to me, is not American. I understand that sometimes war is a necessity, but let's wait until we have a target.

    In the meantime, let's ferret out the terrorists in our own nation. Bush did the right thing by putting the military on alert. Invading a country right now, though, would be a mistake.


    For those with high speed connections, here is a messageboard with pictures from all over the world mourning the events of Tuesday. http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenT...4640913172&p=1

    -Steven

  8. #18
    Senior Member bill1938's Avatar
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    Its not about revenge

    It is about prevention and protection, we must
    protect our population and our way of life. We
    know their motivation, they hate our way of life
    and have vowed to destroy us, they teach their
    children to hate us. They are a tremendous threat to us,what if they bring in a nuclear device or
    chemicals in our water or biological warfare.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jeff's Avatar
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    The two Steves

    Stepehen - Excellent paper. I agree with him, totally.

    Steven - Do you really believe we don't have a target? The Prime Minister of Israel was on Fox News, today. He was very confident about the who and where of necessary targets.

  10. #20
    Jeff:

    We have targets now. I was complaining earlier about people who wanted to bomb everybody for the sole purpose of revenge. Bombing just to be bombing I disagree with. Bombing for preventative purposes I have no problems with. If we know the location of the terrorist training camps, let the bombings commence. Hopefully the training camps will be a safe distance from civilian populations.

    -Steven

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