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Thread: Another stem cell article

  1. #1

    Another stem cell article

    Is it my imagination or do they discuss this person's pre stem cell state and not even briefly describe results? Very strange:

    http://tradearabia.com/touch/article/HEAL/363593

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchitsu View Post
    Is it my imagination or do they discuss this person's pre stem cell state and not even briefly describe results? Very strange:

    http://tradearabia.com/touch/article/HEAL/363593
    That's about all you're going to get from a Grand Rounds session article. If you want more information, you may want to just read the actual scientific publication on your own.
    https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.or...871-7/fulltext
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 02-02-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  3. #3
    Thanks a lot.

    Looks promising however it is another study that's exclusion criteria differs from the subject mentioned.

    It says You must be Asia A or Asia B in order to qualify for the research however this person is a walking Asia C.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchitsu View Post
    Thanks a lot.
    Looks promising however it is another study that's exclusion criteria differs from the subject mentioned.
    It says You must be Asia A or Asia B in order to qualify for the research however this person is a walking Asia C.
    If you read closely, it says in several areas of the publication the patient "enrolled" as an A Asia score.
    "The patient is a 53-year-old male who suffered a surfing accident resulting in a C3-4 SCI. Neurologic examination at the time of the accident revealed complete loss of motor and sensory function below the level of injury along with loss of bowel and bladder sensation. Accordingly, the individual was diagnosed with an American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) grade A SCI. What you're diagnosed with in your initial medical reports can be different once you are evaluated by the SCI enrolling clinical trial team where they carefully do measurements before your treatments are underway. Many people do have some recovery in their Asia grade right after injury. It is confusing where they need to bake in the difference of initial injury A to walking C. (This patient was not a way old chronic). Keep in mind also, this is just ONE person out of the 10 subjects.
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 02-02-2020 at 09:11 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    If you read closely, it says in several areas of the publication the patient enrolled as an A Asia score.
    "Accordingly, the individual was diagnosed with an American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) grade A SCI". What you're diagnosed with in your initial medical reports can be different once you are evaluated by the SCI enrolling clinical trial team where they carefully do measurements before your treatments are underway. Many people do have some recovery in their Asia grade right after injury. It is confusing...yes. Keep in mind also, this is just ONE person out of the 10 subjects.
    Understood. However realistically, immediately after injury it is very difficult to determine much. I could not move anything for a few weeks but was weight-bearing within 2 months.

    They did say this person peaked at 6 months. So they certainly knew the situation but did not disqualify him. Although that also is disingenuous to me in that someone who progresses that far that quickly certainly can't be said to have definitively peaked.

    Don't get me wrong, being I am in that position, I like to see these studies being done on incomplete people and any gains they can potentially make.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchitsu View Post
    Understood. However realistically, immediately after injury it is very difficult to determine much. I could not move anything for a few weeks but was weight-bearing within 2 months.

    They did say this person peaked at 6 months. So they certainly knew the situation but did not disqualify him. Although that also is disingenuous to me in that someone who progresses that far that quickly certainly can't be said to have definitively peaked.

    Don't get me wrong, being I am in that position, I like to see these studies being done on incomplete people and any gains they can potentially make.
    We'll have to see how the other 9 people in the study were graded (both at the time of their injury and the start of the trial). There are lots of people that could be graded a definite A at the beginning but quickly change to new Asia scores. That's what makes these trials so difficult. One cannot say for sure how much was due to natural occurring recovery and how much can be attributed to the intervention treatment in the trial.

    Some argue that trials should only be conducted on severe complete injuries. Over the years however, they've found many of these people didn't stay complete injuries and did show recovery enough to actually be graded as incompletes. The thought was that it would be more difficult to move from complete to incomplete as far as scoring. That hasn't been accurate either.

    SCI is a difficult thing to trial as the injuries are unbelievably variable in so many different ways and it affects such a wide variety of function.

    With that said, that's always why I've felt there will not be a one size fits all SCI miracle cure. It just will not happen that way. Just setting up the criteria for all the patients can be quite a nightmare.
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 02-02-2020 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    We'll have to see how the other 9 people in the study were graded (both at the time of their injury and the start of the trial). There are lots of people that could be graded a definite A at the beginning but quickly change to new Asia scores. That's what makes these trials so difficult. One cannot say for sure how much was due to natural occurring recovery and how much can be attributed to the intervention treatment in the trial.

    Some argue that trials should only be conducted on severe complete injuries. Over the years however, they've found many of these people didn't stay complete injuries and did show recovery enough to actually be graded as incompletes. The thought was that it would be more difficult to move from complete to incomplete as far as scoring. That hasn't been accurate either.

    SCI is a difficult thing to trial as the injuries are unbelievably variable in so many different ways and it affects such a wide variety of function.

    With that said, that's always why I've felt there will not be a one size fits all SCI miracle cure. It just will not happen that way. Just setting up the criteria for all the patients can be quite a nightmare.
    Very well said. Thanks for taking the time to interact.

  8. #8
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    GRAMMY, do you know about when the rest of those patients clinical info and updates should be released?
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchitsu View Post
    Very well said. Thanks for taking the time to interact.
    You're welcome. All the best to you!

    Quote Originally Posted by lunasicc42 View Post
    GRAMMY, do you know about when the rest of those patients clinical info and updates should be released?
    The trial is no longer recruiting, so one assumes they've gotten all 10 candidates. Data is gathered on every candidate clear up to week 96 (About 16 months or 1-1/2 years.) They're putting the primary ending date at Nov. 2022 and the estimated study completion date at Nov. 2023. This allows patient testing time, data analysis and preparation of publication. Stem cell trials are some of the most incredibly difficult trials to organize and bring to completion. We've seen this before...

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