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Thread: 0 vs 2 degrees of camber?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen212 View Post
    The comments above would suggest to someone unfamiliar with wheelchairs and camber that there's a significant difference between 0 and 2 degrees camber. It's really quite subtle.

    You can play around with this chair width calculator to get actual data.
    Subtle maybe, but using the preset example and changing it to 0 camber changes the width by 1.4 inches narrow at the bottom and wider at the top. Before this thread I too had been considering making a change to 2 degrees on one of my chairs, but not now.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  2. #12
    Also makes a difference in being more critical measuring toe in/out. Not much but drag is drag.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    .... and wider at the top.....
    Where do you see this? I've been considering changing mine from 4deg to 2deg but that would be a deal killer for me.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by August West View Post
    Have used camber a long time ago. But the problems outweigh the benefits. Camber adds lateral stability. You can speed around turns easier, like ramp switchbacks. But who cares? The real benefit for camber in everyday life is that you're less likely to tip while picking stuff up from the ground on a steep incline. But how often does that happen? Just have to be more careful. Would never go back to camber. There are places that I can barely make it through the doorway. If I had camber I couldn't go to these places. That's far more important to me than performance. Besides, how much performance is gained with camber? It's negligible off the court. The exception may be if you're pushing all day. Then you may see some benefit. But if your shoulders are feeling it already, then you need a SmartDrive not camber.

    My solution to prevent scraping my knuckles is to be more careful. After all, if you're scraping your knuckles and you add camber, then you're scraping your wheels and destroying the doorways. Better to destroy doorways than knuckles. But still unacceptable IMO. After all it's possible to be careful. It's impossible to make it through a doorway that's narrower than your chair.
    I agree that width is very important, but for me personally, even with two degrees of camber my chair is less than 21" wide. I could drop an inch and a half off of that, but it would make minimal difference. In the US the smallest (standard) sized interior door is 24" (so say 22" to account for the width the door itself takes up when open). I can get through that with my camber and even if I somehow managed to get down to a slender 19" it would still be hopeless to get through the next standard door size which is 18" (so probably 16" or so accounting for the width of the door as above).

    Using the calculator someone stephen posted, the camber on a 15 or 16" wide chair may well be the difference between getting through some doors or not getting through them, so I'd agree zero camber is the way to go in that case.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen212 View Post
    The comments above would suggest to someone unfamiliar with wheelchairs and camber that there's a significant difference between 0 and 2 degrees camber. It's really quite subtle.

    You can play around with this chair width calculator to get actual data.
    Either you make it through the doorway or you don't. Not subtle when you can't because of camber.

    Keep in mind that when you add camber two things happen: 1) the distance between wheels increases at the bottom of the wheels, and 2) the distance between wheels decreases at the top of the wheels.

    For example, you have 16" seat width, 1" wheel spacing, 0 camber, 25 inch wheels and long tabs. The result is that the width of the wheels is 23" at the top and bottom. Now, let's say you add 2 degrees camber. The results are as follows:

    1. width at the bottom of the wheel = 24.5"
    2. width at the top of the wheel = 21.5"

    You're not done. Because the top of the wheels are closer together, they are rubbing against your thighs. To restore the same clearance you had before, you have to increase the axle spacing by 3/4". The results are as follows:

    1. width at the bottom of the wheel = 26"
    2. width at the top of the wheel = 23"

    Going from 23" wide to 24.5" is bad enough. You just eliminated clearance through a standard 24" doorway. Going to 26" is ridiculous IMO.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by endo_aftermath View Post
    Where do you see this? I've been considering changing mine from 4deg to 2deg but that would be a deal killer for me.
    See my previous post for explanation.

  7. #17
    yep, may work for you smaller guys. I'm 6'2" and muscular(?) so use an 18" seat width.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NW-Will View Post
    Same here, every time I go to my zero camber chair I wipe out my knuckles.
    I use 0 camber and have one very tight doorway. When going through it I simply pull on the door frame without putting my hands on the wheels or hand rims. I have to wipe off the woodwork every weeks. so what?

    I'm in a 16 inch chair and reach down quite often to get things off the floor. Tipping used to be avoided by putting one hand back on a wheel, but as legs got stronger (about 10 years post) I push own with my feet for 3 post stability- butt and 2 feet.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by endo_aftermath View Post
    Where do you see this? I've been considering changing mine from 4deg to 2deg but that would be a deal killer for me.
    August explains it better than I could in post #15
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  10. #20
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    My 16" TiLite with 2deg camber with Spinergy LX X-Laced wheels is 24" wide from push rim to push rim at the widest point on the bottom (not 26") and 22.25" push rim to push rim at the widest point on top. Seems different than your measurements.

    They are close enough for me to conclude this, though: For someone using a 16" wide chair camber might make the difference (pushing type matters a bunch too), but for anyone with a chair larger or smaller camber is moot when reasoning from the need to get through a 24" interior American door. Smaller frames can pass with either 0 or 2 and larger frames can't get through cleanly with either.

    Quote Originally Posted by August West View Post
    Either you make it through the doorway or you don't. Not subtle when you can't because of camber.

    Keep in mind that when you add camber two things happen: 1) the distance between wheels increases at the bottom of the wheels, and 2) the distance between wheels decreases at the top of the wheels.

    For example, you have 16" seat width, 1" wheel spacing, 0 camber, 25 inch wheels and long tabs. The result is that the width of the wheels is 23" at the top and bottom. Now, let's say you add 2 degrees camber. The results are as follows:

    1. width at the bottom of the wheel = 24.5"
    2. width at the top of the wheel = 21.5"

    You're not done. Because the top of the wheels are closer together, they are rubbing against your thighs. To restore the same clearance you had before, you have to increase the axle spacing by 3/4". The results are as follows:

    1. width at the bottom of the wheel = 26"
    2. width at the top of the wheel = 23"

    Going from 23" wide to 24.5" is bad enough. You just eliminated clearance through a standard 24" doorway. Going to 26" is ridiculous IMO.
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