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Thread: Home surveillance system

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by automation View Post
    You're thinking incredibly naively. The days of hackerrs just trying to cause mischief for INDIVIDUALS (e.g., by erasing your hard drive or stealing your address book) are decades past.

    No one really gives a damn what goes on in your house -- except google, of course (but for different reasons; they're trying to HELP you! <rolls eyes>)!

    But, your camera(s) -- and other bits of "smart technology" -- are ripe for lending beachheads to malware that can interact with other devices IN YOUR HOUSE (like your PC's). Would you let that chinese hacker sit in your bedroom with full access to your network, indefinitely, patiently and single-mindedly looking for exploits in the other deviecs that you have attached to it?? Why would you let him sit in your CAMERA??

    Also, they can be used to create botnets that then are deployed to attack specific targets (how'd you like to discover that YOUR camera played a role in attacking your BANK?) A worthwhile read: https://www.wired.com/story/reaper-i...lion-networks/

    A bit of time researching how attacks and exploits have been deployed IN THE PAST might cause you to invest in some tinfoil of your own!

    Recall, there's no "antivirus" software for your camera(s), thermostat, etc. And, are you sure their firmware is up-to-date? Even if so, google "zero day exploit" and wonder why YOU will be the lucky soul who is NOT hacked.

    [Hint: I design this sort of stuff for a living. The number of exploits that you don't hear about -- cuz your more interested in football/basketball scores -- is staggering. And, where there's evidence of ONE flaw in a design, there are likely many MORE!]

    From https://www.vdoo.com/blog/working-wi...olink-cameras/:



    From https://github.com/threat9/routersploit/issues/242:

    List of vulnerabilities & exploits

    • Intellinet NFC-30IR Camera - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      Netwave IP Camera - Password Disclosure
      Komfy Switch with Camera DKZ-201S/W - WiFi Password Disclosure
    • AVTECH IP Camera, NVR, and DVR Devices - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      VideoIQ Camera - Local File Disclosure
      Vanderbilt IP-Camera CCPW3025-IR / CVMW3025-IR - Local File Disclosure
    • JVC IP-Camera VN-T216VPRU - Local File Disclosure
      Honeywell IP-Camera HICC-1100PT - Local File Disclosure
    • MESSOA IP-Camera NIC990 - Authentication Bypass / Configuration Download
      SIEMENS IP Cameras (Multiple Models) - Credential Disclosure / Configuration Download
    • Vanderbilt IP-Camera CCPW3025-IR / CVMW3025-IR - Credentials Disclosure
      MESSOA IP Cameras (Multiple Models) - Unauthenticated Password Change
    • JVC IP-Camera VN-T216VPRU - Credentials Disclosure
      TOSHIBA IP-Camera IK-WP41A - Authentication Bypass / Configuration Download
    • Honeywell IP-Camera HICC-1100PT - Credentials Disclosure
      SIEMENS IP Camera CCMW1025 x.2.2.1798 - Remote Admin Credentials Change
    • SIEMENS IP-Camera CVMS2025-IR / CCMS2025 - Credentials Disclosure
      Samsung Smart Home Camera SNH-P-6410 - Command Injection
    • Multiple JVC HDRs and Net Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      Merit Lilin IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • TH692 Outdoor P2P HD Waterproof IP Camera - Hard-Coded Credentials
      Brickcom Corporation Network Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • Axis Network Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      PLANET Technology IP Surveillance Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • ADH-Web Server IP-Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      TP-Link NC200/NC220 Cloud Camera 300Mbps Wi-Fi - Hard-Coded Credentials
    • Keeper IP Camera 3.2.2.10 - Authentication Bypass
      Security IP Camera Star Vision DVR - Authentication Bypass
    • IPUX CS7522/CS2330/CS2030 IP Camera - 'UltraHVCamX.ocx' ActiveX Stack Buffer Overflow
      IPUX Cube Type CS303C IP Camera - 'UltraMJCamX.ocx' ActiveX Stack Buffer Overflow
    • IPUX CL5452/CL5132 IP Camera - 'UltraSVCamX.ocx' ActiveX Stack Buffer Overflow
      TRENDnet SecurView Wireless Network Camera TV-IP422WN - 'UltraCamX.ocx' Stack Buffer Overflow
    • Foscam IP Camera - Predictable Credentials Security Bypass
      Vivotek IP Cameras - RTSP Authentication Bypass
    • Loftek Nexus 543 IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      Hikvision IP Cameras 4.1.0 b130111 - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • TP-Link TL-SC3171 IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      FOSCAM IP-Cameras - Improper Access Restrictions
    • Airlive IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      MayGion IP Cameras Firmware 09.27 - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • Zavio IP Cameras Firmware 1.6.03 - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      Security IP Camera Star Vision DVR - Authentication Bypass
    • IPUX Cube Type CS303C IP Camera - 'UltraMJCamX.ocx' ActiveX Stack Buffer Overflow
      IPUX CL5452/CL5132 IP Camera - 'UltraSVCamX.ocx' ActiveX Stack Buffer Overflow
    • IPUX CS7522/CS2330/CS2030 IP Camera - 'UltraHVCamX.ocx' ActiveX Stack Buffer Overflow
      TRENDnet SecurView Wireless Network Camera TV-IP422WN - 'UltraCamX.ocx' Stack Buffer Overflow
    • Foscam IP Camera - Predictable Credentials Security Bypass
      Vivotek IP Cameras - RTSP Authentication Bypass
    • Loftek Nexus 543 IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      Hikvision IP Cameras 4.1.0 b130111 - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • TP-Link TL-SC3171 IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      FOSCAM IP-Cameras - Improper Access Restrictions
    • Airlive IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      TP-Link IP Cameras Firmware 1.6.18P12 - Multiple Vulnerabilities
    • D-Link IP Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      StarVedia IPCamera IC502w IC502w+ v020313 - 'Username'/Password Disclosure
    • D-Link DCS Cameras - Multiple Vulnerabilities
      Vivotek Cameras - Sensitive Information Disclosure
    • TRENDnet SecurView Internet Camera - UltraMJCam OpenFileDlg Buffer Overflow (Metasploit)
      TRENDnet SecurView TV-IP121WN Wireless Internet Camera - UltraMJCam ActiveX Control OpenFileDlg WideCharToMultiByte Remote Stack Buffer Overflow
    • Cisco Linksys WVC200 Wireless-G PTZ Internet Video Camera PlayerPT - ActiveX Control PlayerPT.ocx sprintf Buffer Overflow
      Multiple Trendnet Camera Products - Remote Security Bypass
    • RXS-3211 IP Camera - UDP Packet Password Information Disclosure
      Camtron CMNC-200 IP Camera - Authentication Bypass
    • Camtron CMNC-200 IP Camera - Undocumented Default Accounts
      Camtron CMNC-200 IP Camera - ActiveX Buffer Overflow
    • Camtron CMNC-200 IP Camera - Directory Traversal
      Intellinet IP Camera MNC-L10 - Authentication Bypass
    • ARD-9808 DVR Card Security Camera - Arbitrary Config Disclosure
      Camera Life 2.6.2b4 - Arbitrary File Upload
    • Camera Life 2.6.2 - 'id' Parameter SQL Injection
      AXIS Camera Control (AxisCamControl.ocx 1.0.2.15) - Buffer Overflow
    • Sony Network Camera SNC-P5 1.0 - ActiveX viewer Heap Overflow (PoC)
      D-Link DCS-900 Camera - Remote IP Address Changer Exploit
    • Axis Network Camera 2.x And Video Server 1-3 - virtualinput.cgi Arbitrary Command Execution
      Axis Network Camera 2.x And Video Server 1-3 - Directory Traversal
    • Axis Network Camera 2.x And Video Server 1-3 - HTTP Authentication Bypass
      Linksys Web Camera Software 2.10 - Next_file Parameter File Disclosure
    • Axis Network Camera 2.x - HTTP Authentication Bypass


    If you're more technically inclined https://jumpespjump.blogspot.com/201...and-found.html:

    That kind of thinking really holds people back.

    Anything tied to the internet can be hacked just change the default passwords and move on.

    We have cameras, security systems, phones, tablets, computers, nest, refrigerators, the list goes on and on and our life is fine and very accessible now with technology!

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott C4/5 View Post
    We're looking for a security camera system for the house. I want at least 4 cameras that are wired and I would like to have audio on the cameras if possible. I want to spend less then $500-ish. Any recommendations?

    Thanks...



    PS I want a hard drive to record on instead of cloud storage.

    Hardwire is really dating the system go wifi and keep it simple and more cost effective.

    Keep with majors like Ring simple HD and now 4k options you can add memory cards the units or store on the clould. or do both.

    As your needs change you can add more cameras or remove them.

    We have ours set to trigger us when someone gets near our property.

    You can listen and talk back with crystal clear!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollPositive View Post
    That kind of thinking really holds people back.
    No, that kind of thinking saves people the aggravation of having their HOUSEHOLD hacked!

    You have some number of wireless devices (in this case, cameras) tie to your wireless router which is also tied to your computer(s). In addition to any other wired/wireless cruft in your home. There is no "firewall" in the air between the wireless devices and an adversary. No way to keep him out beyond the encryption that the wireless devices use. And, this keeps CHANGING with each passing year (because exploits are uncovered that expose weaknesses in the earlier "standards" -- WEP? WPA? WPA2? When does AES fall??).

    And, once "inside" your (firewalled!?) network, an adversary's software can sit, patiently, probing for flaws in the other devices connected to that wireless network -- including those WIRED devices connected at your router! Because he's "inside", your firewall can't keep him out. Nor can it prevent him from contacting The Mothership for instructions as to which attacks should be tried next (nor from reporting his success/failure with previous attacks).

    Of course, you probably do your online banking, billpay and ecommerce using one of those computers so that malware can poke at your computer until it's managed to find a way in and lift your bank account #, password, etc.

    Why have a firewall on your router if there's a way AROUND it?

    Anything tied to the internet can be hacked just change the default passwords and move on.
    Any car can be stolen! So, why INCONVENIENCE yourself by carrying keys and fumbling to lock/unlock the doors when you could just leave the car UNLOCKED? (!)

    "Default passwords" are low-hanging fruit. Hacks involve more than just probing for devices where the user has been too lazy/naive/inept to bother changing passwords from their factory defaults.

    List all of the devices that you have connected to your network -- doorcam, thermostat, smart TV, router, PCs, etc. Then, note the most recent time you installed any software updates for that device. Then, see if there are even updates AVAILABLE for it! (do you really think that a device for which updates are unavailable is "bug free"? Or, that any bugs are solely unrelated to security aspects of its operation?)

    I'm installing a security camera setup at a local business this coming week. The cameras are wired to the DVR (which runs 24/7/365). The DVR "talks" to one PC -- but not to the outside world. Similarly, there is no way for the outside world to talk to (i.e., HACK) the DVR. Because I know the DVR software will soon be "no longer supported" -- which means any exploits discovered in the future will be impossible to fix (unless they publish the source code for the DVR itself). By isolating the device from any potential sources of exploits, I eliminate that possibility (because I don't want to make a career out of keeping folks' DVRs up-to-date!)

    Here's a "random" webcam: https://www.shodan.io/host/218.147.109.62 Note that the search engine not only FOUND the webcam but probed it to determine what software was CURRENTLY running on/in the device. THEN, consulted the PUBLICLY AVAILABLE list of exploits and determined which of those would apply to this particular device (listed in the lower left as CVE-....). So, if I have a means of tickling one of those exploits, this is a good candidate for me to take a poke at!

    We have cameras, security systems, phones, tablets, computers, nest, refrigerators, the list goes on and on and our life is fine and very accessible now with technology!
    In your lifetime, you'll never have the amount of automation (note my choice of username!) that I've installed, here. But, NONE of it is hackable. No, not "99.937%"... NONE! Because security was far more important to me than "convenience". No wireless devices (4000+ ft of cable, instead, for the 100+ devices). No internet access (instead, it's accessed over the PHONE -- far more convenient and far less damage that can be done through that "small pipe"... try downloading software through a voice connection that PROHIBITS software downloads!). No "foreign" computers (try plugging in your laptop to one of my network jacks and you'll find you can't "talk" to anything!).

    Had I valued convenience, instead, I'd not bother to put any effort -- nor money -- into security.

    Cars moved from using REAL keys to wireless keyfobs (with "push to unlock") to keyfobs that save you the grueling task of pushing that little button -- just grab the door handle and the door opens, magically! CONVENIENCE!

    OTOH, I can buy a little "radio" that I conceal in my hand, or pocket. When I see you leaving your vehicle, I'll quickly walk to follow you into the store, getting reasonably close to your person. Close enough for my radio to hear YOUR keyfob's chirps. Meanwhile, my buddy will be standing right alongside your driver-side door with the mate to MY radio in his pocket -- close enough so your car can hear whatever it "says". Of course, it will SAY whatever the radio in my pocket RELAYS to it! So, when HE grabs the door handle, your car will think that YOU are standing beside it and dutifully unlock the door. And, likewise, start the engine when my buddy presses the START ENGINE button.

    "Duh, who would design such a stupid system??" :> (Well, we didn't expect CAR THEIVES to use off-the-shelf technology in that way!)

    Similar stories re: overriding a vehicle's controls while it is being driven, remotely reprogramming pacemakers, interfering with the flight systems on aircraft, etc. In each case, because the designers opted for convenience over security (does the car stereo REALLY need to be able to "talk" to the door locks? BRAKES????)

    With your attitude, it's only a matter of time before you're hacked. And, then, of course, it will be someone else's fault (the vendor for selling a crappy product... or, not bothering to release updates to its software after a 2 year lifespan -- you DO plan on replacing your devices when that happens, right?).

    [BTW, where did you say you parked your (unlocked) car??]

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollPositive View Post
    Keep with majors like Ring simple HD and now 4k options you can add memory cards the units or store on the clould. or do both.
    From https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/r...ity-flaw-hack/

    ?Ring is a well-respected IoT brand, however, the vulnerability we discovered in the Ring video doorbell reveals even highly secure devices are vulnerable to attack,?

    And another:

    https://www.iotforall.com/huge-vulne...ring-doorbell/

    and yet another, completely different approach:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/rings-smar...able-to-hacks/

    [Feel free to spend some time googling for "ring product vulnerabilities" -- or, any other make/model you choose!]

    As your needs change you can add more cameras or remove them.

    We have ours set to trigger us when someone gets near our property.

    You can listen and talk back with crystal clear!
    None of this requires a wireless connection! Does your doorbell turn off the lawn sprinklers when it sees someone walking up the front sidewalk? Or, "tell" the delivery person to please leave the package with the neighbor next door, in your absence? (Does it even know when you're "absent"??) Or, tell the neighbor next door that a package has been delivered??

    I guess those MISSING capabilities must date your wireless implementation, eh? :>

  5. #15
    The readers of this topic would do well to give due consideration to what "automation" has presented in this thread prior to this little suggestion.
    This kind suggestion is offered by a degreed engineer, computer programmer (including microcode, assembly, and high level languages), and technologist who neither knows nor has met "automation."

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC_Sage View Post
    The readers of this topic would do well to give due consideration to what "automation" has presented in this thread prior to this little suggestion.
    This kind suggestion is offered by a degreed engineer, computer programmer (including microcode, assembly, and high level languages), and technologist who neither knows nor has met "automation."
    "Convenience" and "Security" are at odds with each other.

    The problem is that consumers don't shop for "security" (or even reliability, for that matter! ). Instead, they look at cost and features. In fact, they are typically incapable of evaluating products based on their "robustness". (and, the vendor is surely not going to list all the flaws in their product -- assuming they are even AWARE of them!)

    Developers know this. In brainstorming sessions for new products, the conversation always centers on these two issues -- with a token mention of "security" (as if merely mentioning it is sufficient to ensure it is "present").

    Their notion of the types of threats they may face is naive. And, their solutions are equally so ("Why can't you just use my thumbprint?" "Um, what happens when someone discovers how to HACK your thumbprint? Will you swap it out for a NEW THUMB?? Or, your voice? Face? etc.")

    Folks want "easy to remember passwords" -- despite the fact that this makes them EASIER TO CRACK. They don't want to have to remember multiple passwords for multiple accounts/devices (because that's inconvenient!) so once a password for a device/account is "compromised", its likely that all other accounts/devices will be compromised. (The look on my friends' faces when I "crack" their password in a few minutes -- while they WATCH -- is always entertaining: "You mean, that's all it takes? Even though my password was 10 characters and kind of random/unpronounceable???")

    They don't want to run wires cuz that's costly, time consuming and "not convenient" ("Why can't I just PLUG IT IN??"). They don't want to have to keep changing batteries (because that's inconvenient -- just look at how many smoke detectors have been idled while their owners are remembering to replace the battery). And, they don't want to have those silly wall-warts all over the place in lieu of batteries because that's unsightly (inconvenient to look at).

    They don't want to continuously monitor (hacks are discovered every day!) all of their devices for security flaws thinking the manufacturer will do that (and the low retail price for the item will INCLUDE that service, FOREVER!). And, when a flaw is discovered and they eventually learn about it, they're annoyed that they have to replace their device(s) because a "patch" is not available. And, aren't technically savvy enough to understand why a patch may not even be possible for that problem on that product. (if the vendor makes this claim, the user thinks the vendor is just trying to "sell him something else" instead of standing behind his original product)

    When a product is pitched to you as "convenient" or "inexpensive", you should first ask what you're silently forfeiting FOR that convenience/pricing.

  7. #17
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    Have had a security system and my house since 2003 and it has been constantly updated as times change.

    The simplest way is to go to Amazon.com and search for security systems or surveillance systems. Then you can go on eBay and find components you may like to add.

    Then find a local installer to put it in for you correctly. Remember, you get what you pay for.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by automation View Post

    If you're more technically inclined https://jumpespjump.blogspot.com/201...and-found.html:
    Most people can do their own research for the specific situations. I do not know you, but have learned just to skip your cut-and-paste posts.

    If your network is secure your cameras are secure. No other point to make. If your cameras are on your network and your network is secure, then your cameras are secure.

    Without cut-and-paste logic. :-)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cris View Post
    Most people can do their own research for the specific situations.
    No, sadly they CAN'T! Even if they're proactive enough to attempt such an endeavor, they don't have the tools or technical knowledge to evaluate any information they might find. Unless you stumble on a headline like "Camera Model #123 Discovered to be Source of Widespread Botnet", you can't come to any conclusions about your camera, the other items on your network, OR your network itself.

    That's like saying people can do their own research for their specific SCI situations -- and, thus, come to the optimal conclusion as to their treatment plan and prognosis! You rely on experts to provide that assessment for you -- and, hope that their information/experience is "accurate" and "current" (last year's treatment plan may not be appropriate in light of more recent findings).

    Dunning Kruger Effect (I won't bother you with a "cut-and-paste" explanation -- with you being the poster child for it! )

    Zombieload was announced 14 May (but, then again, you already KNEW that, right?) Can you tell me which, if any, devices on your network might be vulnerable to it? Do you even know what's INSIDE each of the devices you use? Who do you expect to look through YOUR device inventory to assess its vulnerability to Zombieload? Or Meltdown? Or Spectre? Or...

    But, that's just when the exploit was published -- it had existed (and been KNOWN to exist!) for some time before it was publicly disclosed (give folks time to think about how to mitigate the problem before alerting any adversaries of its existence).

    And, if your camera isn't directly exploitable by any of these (or the hundreds/thousands of other PUBLISHED exploits), how do you know that some other device that is vulnerable can't be used as a beachhead to address some other exploit -- possibly of your camera?

    How many "white hat" folks do you think are proactively checking the devices that you own ON YOUR BEHALF to anticipate future vulnerabilities? Do you know each device's manufacturer's policies regarding that sort of effort? Are they proactive, reactive, or simply "unconcerned"?? Are THEY sure they know what the vulnerabilities in their products are? Or, are they hoping someone will TELL them about these?

    [I played a lot of pinball in my youth. I befriended the guy who ran the "route" at college. One day he asked why he was finding all these PENNIES in the coinbox as the games ONLY accepted quarters. So, I showed him how a player could get the machine to treat a penny as a quarter. Then, showed him how to "fix" the machine so the trick wouldn't work. He serviced these machines for a living -- yet I had to show him how they could be hacked. Wanna know how to make free phone calls? Get food from vending machines? Crack your partner's password in under 5 minutes?]

    I've been doing this sort of thing for more than 40 years. I find exploits in existing products and advise clients as to how to mitigate them. Sometimes, their answer is "let's just leave it (costs less than fixing it) and hope no one discovers it". I've had a hand in the design of the machines that test your blood samples, fabricate the medicines you take, pump the gas into your cars, run your cars, do your fishing, decide when to show "triple 7's" at the casino, harvest the lobsters you eat, lock/unlock your hotel room door, etc.

    [NDAs prohibit me from discussing things that aren't "already publicly known" -- cut-and-paste is prima facie evidence that the information IS publicly known, so I'm off the hook! :> It also lends credibility to an argument as I'm not expecting readers to "take my word for it"]

    You wouldn't believe the number of flaws and exploits that have existed -- and still exist -- that have never made it to a CNN headline. Even as an "insider", I am still at a loss to keep up with the flood of exploits coming out every day! So, returning to your initial assertion, how are "most people" going to know about them? I sure wish I had your clairvoyance!

    I do not know you, but have learned just to skip your cut-and-paste posts.
    Confirming my preceding D&K statement ("I already KNOW it so don't need to LEARN it!")

    It's sad when anyone refuses to come to grips with their shortcomings and refuse to move forward/learn. Understand your shortcomings -- it makes for more interesting discoveries when you realize you don't know what's around the next corner!

    If your network is secure your cameras are secure. No other point to make. If your cameras are on your network and your network is secure, then your cameras are secure.
    How do you KNOW that your network is secure? How do you know that every item ON the network is secure? Do you do periodic pen testing? Or, have a firm on retainer that does that for you, regularly? Are you advocating "most people" do likewise??

    Without cut-and-paste logic. :-)
    With, instead, a naive, simpleton, D&K rationale... (sigh)


  10. #20
    I have heard about these little indoor Wyze Cams for quite some time. They are helluva buy starting at around $20. You get 14 days of free upstream bandwidth/storage. You can also add an SD card. They work with Alexa. I have also learned that they use TLS, AES 128-bit encryption to protect the security of the live stream and playback data. Every device has its own secret key and cert so they can validate the identity during a handshake.

    Right now I have two of these cameras in my Amazon cart. If you do your due diligence and you are looking for something simple, I cannot think of a reason why you should not buy these cameras for your home.

    https://www.wyze.com/product/wyze-cam-v2/

    https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-713.htm
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