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Thread: Finally gonna try to use Medicare to get a chair

  1. #81
    Interesting Halls tribute chair from Oracing. Unfortunately, we (Bike-On) no longer offer their chairs because they failed to honor the warranty or provide after-sale support to several of our customers leaving them stranded. Cold-shouldered them. So not cool.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuentejps View Post
    yup, this is the el toro i believe, similar to the halls wheels chair that i loved. very reasonably priced as well
    Looking over their order form, given the range of options and fitting, they are priced incredibly well. Looks like they're doing decent business, too. That's great for them and the more usage data the better for us. One to keep an eye on, for sure.
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  3. #83
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    Loved the design, ever since I saw stephen212's Hallmark, although it's borderline too busy/too much metal for me. Wouldn't be surprised if it was strong as heck.


    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    To me, the El Toro looks like an attempt to "improve" on Bob Hall's original design only to lose some of its essence. It not only requires more segments of tubing, they weld clamps on the ends of some segments to secure the carbon fiber sections in the frame (bottom pic). If the goal is to build a light, stiff, perfectly aligned frame, that is a lot of extra work with very little pay off. It seems like more of a marketing decision than a sound design choice.

    I like Oracing's approach more. It features design characteristics of the Hallmark, but it still looks like an Oracing chair.

    While Bob Halls original design is a classic, neither of the "neo-hallmark" designs is compatible with a SmartDrive. One thing that could allow either company to market their chair as a "modern take on an classic" would be to integrate the SmartDrive's interface at the back of center frame rail where the clamp would normally attach.
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

    "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

  4. #84
    im not an oracing fan at all, however im a big hoc/d's fan for many years.
    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    To me, the El Toro looks like an attempt to "improve" on Bob Hall's original design only to lose some of its essence. It not only requires more segments of tubing, they weld clamps on the ends of some segments to secure the carbon fiber sections in the frame (bottom pic). If the goal is to build a light, stiff, perfectly aligned frame, that is a lot of extra work with very little pay off. It seems like more of a marketing decision than a sound design choice.

    I like Oracing's approach more. It features design characteristics of the Hallmark, but it still looks like an Oracing chair.

    While Bob Halls original design is a classic, neither of the "neo-hallmark" designs is compatible with a SmartDrive. One thing that could allow either company to market their chair as a "modern take on an classic" would be to integrate the SmartDrive's interface at the back of center frame rail where the clamp would normally attach.
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  5. #85
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    Speaking of HoC, the last time I spoke to Steve he explained one of the main reasons they only build frames out of titanium is because of the cost involved in heat treating aluminum frames after they are welded. For them, maybe not big manufacturers, it's cheaper to build a titanium frame (in addition to the other advantages mentioned in this thread). Regardless of the material, they make some of the best quality / innovative chairs I've seen.

    I love seeing stuff like this:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BuNGmrNB..._web_copy_link

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    To me, the El Toro looks like an attempt to "improve" on Bob Hall's original design only to lose some of its essence. It not only requires more segments of tubing, they weld clamps on the ends of some segments to secure the carbon fiber sections in the frame (bottom pic). If the goal is to build a light, stiff, perfectly aligned frame, that is a lot of extra work with very little pay off. It seems like more of a marketing decision than a sound design choice.

    I like Oracing's approach more. It features design characteristics of the Hallmark, but it still looks like an Oracing chair.

    While Bob Halls original design is a classic, neither of the "neo-hallmark" designs is compatible with a SmartDrive. One thing that could allow either company to market their chair as a "modern take on an classic" would be to integrate the SmartDrive's interface at the back of center frame rail where the clamp would normally attach.
    I asked HoC about the smart drive connection recently and this is their solution, pretty clever:
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  7. #87
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    I didn't think any of the big companies were heat treating post-welding. IIRC, that was a big debate years ago. One of the designers now/at one time with TiLite (Doug something ?!), who had previously designed the Quickie XTR, spoke about it in an old article; how he was frustrated with them for not heat treating before and after welding, which not doing so made his XTR design too heavy, since it needed more material to be strong enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post
    Speaking of HoC, the last time I spoke to Steve he explained one of the main reasons they only build frames out of titanium is because of the cost involved in heat treating aluminum frames after they are welded. For them, maybe not big manufacturers, it's cheaper to build a titanium frame (in addition to the other advantages mentioned in this thread). Regardless of the material, they make some of the best quality / innovative chairs I've seen.

    I love seeing stuff like this:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BuNGmrNB..._web_copy_link
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

    "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

  8. #88
    That would be Doug Garven.


  9. #89
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    Yes, thanks SCI_OTR, that's him.

    Well, I got my final quote, and paid my co-pays.

    This was a bit of shocker, though, for an order form stock chair (and SD, most of the cost)




    Edit: TYCON Medical, in South Eastern VA (Tidewater), did me a solid deal on this chair. I can recommend them without reservation. The initial delays were entirely accidental, I believe, and I haven't exactly been Johnny-on-the-Spot getting back to them when they've called or emailed. All-in-All, Jimmy and Nicky, at TYCON, are worth checking out for DME in this area. They tried really hard, and I always felt they had my interests in mind as top priority. I'll certainly be working with them again, if/when the need arises.
    Last edited by Oddity; 05-31-2019 at 12:33 PM.
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

    "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

  10. #90
    What did you end up going with?

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