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Thread: Dialing in chair fit- Frame length and angle

  1. #1

    Dialing in chair fit- Frame length and angle

    Well, looks like my Ki Rogue will be remade a third time, hopefully the charm. I'm curious about frame length and angle degree in front. I have had on the past few chairs 90 degrees, and there's not enough room for my feet to sit right, they're too far back. I'm getting an extra long frame, so I have something to grip on beyond the cushion (My ZR supposedly has 2" extra but it doesn't feel like it). Does having it be 85 degrees help with getting up into the chair from the floor without it being tippy?? I need VERY short seat to footrest length, which is super hard for companies to do. Would 85 help that? It does look better with 90, and some taper. But I only have like 9" height to play with. Does anyone have photos of their chair that might be extra long for this? I've always been able to get up in a chair from the ground until the last several chairs, and there's just not enough to hold on to, and they tip forward easily.
    My Rogue came being super short, with 1" dump and 24" wheels. I couldn't reach anything, the counters were up to my neck practically. I'm also iffy on dump. I felt like more than an inch would make more pressure, but less for sure I feel not stable and falling forward. The Supracor contour cushion made the dump more though, and it felt too much. I'm getting the XS next, not sure if that is higher in front than back, too? Which makes for even shorter length for my legs to reach footrests of course. But my Roho hybrid on 1" dump felt like I was falling forward again. Sigh. I can't believe I still can't dial in a chair! WTH.
    This is what I look like in my ZR, that I feel very much ON not IN, and falling forward. See even with Docs on, which give me more leg height, they're not high enough, and the footrests are not far enough forward.
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  2. #2
    For the time being until you figure out what to do, why not try to reverse your footplate?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    The measurement you're referring to is colloquially known as "Occupied Frame Length". It's not an 'industry standard' wheelchair measurement (you won't find it on an order form), but a few prominent seating OTs have been pushing to make it so, and a few manufacturers have acknowledged it, and will/can spec around it. TiLite is one. I don't know about Ki. HoC could, no doubt. Lasher can too.

    OFL is the distance from the front of the backrest to the leading edge of the footrest. It is a critical dimension, and forms the basis of a well fit frame every bit as much as seat width and depth do.

    I'd recommend you nail down exactly what you need your OFL to be, then work adding frame length and adjusting the front angle to meet this need. This is a much better approach than working from angle and depth to try to hit a vague notion of where you want your feet to be.
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

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    "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

  4. #4
    Interesting Oddity. So if having an aftermarket back, you would account for where that would sit, all the way to footrest. Not sure if Ki does it. This is what I got back today. *you will go from 15.5 to 17, which is an inch lower than your current Ti chair, and adding the 25" rear wheels. this is the closest we are going to get to achieve all of the goals, and the custom footplate H style.*
    And I'm already confused. It's worrisome to go off my Ti, because I'm sitting also on a seat pan board, that's pretty thick. The sling effect made me too low and added more pressure to my rear. I don't know how to even measure for this, because my back is not a clamp on, and the footrests aren't out far enough. I wish there was some sort of model chair they could adjust with you and go off that!

  5. #5
    I would say this one is too long. The seat sling is longer than the seat cushion. I am 5 ft 4in tall. My legs fall to the inside and almost look like they are on tippy toes when they sit on the footrests. Trying to open doors is tricky because it feels like I have to reach too far. I wish you could back out of this deal.
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    Last edited by Sugarcube; 08-29-2018 at 06:02 AM. Reason: need to fix photo too big

  6. #6
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    They don't have demo chairs for fitting?!?!?!!!?! That's bad. Is this normal?! I've been to 3 places for chairs over my 12 years of SCI and they each had all manner and sizes of chairs to try out during the evals. Well, now you've got one to use as a basis so I'd start there. Use it as the base and tell them exactly what you want moved where. Don't let them tell YOU.
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

    "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

  7. #7
    That's what I THOUGHT was happening! LOL. Interesting, I put on the 24" wheels on my Ti, that's got 5" casters and configured for a 25" wheel, and it feels good. The wheels are probably a tad low, but if I get another inch dump that would fix that. Are you supposed to be able to reach the ground from in front? It's been so long I don't remember if I used to be able to or not! I can reach to the side, but the sideguards are higher than the wheels, so it makes it a bit hard. I guess as long as I can pick stuff up it's good. But I do want 4" casters I think. Flutter less, yes?

  8. #8
    Yeah usually the cushion is an inch past the seat. On mine, the wheels moving forward more would nearly be touching the casters! That makes it super tippy I'm sure. (Forward). I think my scissor brakes are rattling a lot. I don't like them, cuz you have to reach way under. But don't like those kind either above. Does yours bulge out a lot where the Rogue badge is?? Dang, how does one keep from bumping all sorts of things and scratching that up?? So you must have shorter legs, too. Yet they managed to do footplates without risers or an H mount weld that they're talking about. (Makes it weak with a Freewheel). Is your dump an inch, or more?

  9. #9
    Wow, so the smaller wheels feels perfect, but then I put the Supracor contour on it and the amount of dump makes my neck sit weird, like pushed forward. It feels like I'm squished in, and slumping. I'm not so sure dump is good for spina bifida users. At least with short bodies. I'm really wanting to try having the Supracor, but this one is way too slanted. Is the XS just as slanted? Anyone have the dimensions on the back thickness of it? I wonder if they can customize one a bit, like put the plush layer on the rear part only. I'm definitely not comfy in it. The Roho is much better. I took the board out and so I'm in a sling seat that's hammocked a tad, that doesn't help I'm sure. Trying so hard to figure out how to make this new chair before we talk tomorrow! Bleh!

  10. #10
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Getting items to demo has been an issue for me as well.

    Looking at the top photo - and I'm certainly no expert and leave it to the people here that are - but I wonder if your cushion was just a bit smaller in height and shorter in length if that chair wouldn't be perfect? The cushion appears to be pushing on the back of your legs forcing them to 'dangle' instead of sit properly on the footrest?
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