Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34

Thread: An Alternative to Tilite

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
    Titanium simply isn't the wonder material the hype train believed it was. The end user and the business cases both failed, which is why there's only one big manufacturer still trying to make it work.

    A quick DuckDuckGo search reveals the "unknown reasons" why the industry (provider and payer) backed away from titanium, aside from the poor cost:benefit ratio.

    site:sci.rutgers.edu frame crack

    This is almost exclusively a titanium frame result set. Making it lighter means making it too thin, since it's quite a heavy element. Thinness is its only option to compete, and that has consequences in wheelchair applications.

    Quickie had too many axle plate failures. It was widely reported at the time. Not for "reasons unknown".
    The problems with the Quickie Ti frames was the design, frame crush when adjusting the axle plate and retightening the bolts. I still have an old Quickie Ti frame (circa 1994), and rivnuts are all perfectly flush to the frame, every hole in it is clean, even the welds looks better than current Tilite stuff. And despite what my friend Titanium4motion says, yes Tilite did make that frame, I know this because Tilite told me they did.

    I think the thin wall Ti tube is okay, if the design of the frame doesn't have any thru bolts, and its a fixed welded back, not adjustable. I actually prefer aluminum over Ti, and once tried to get Tilite to make me an aluminum TR, but as often is the case with them, they refused.
    Last edited by giles88; 08-27-2018 at 11:21 PM.

  2. #12
    Titanium4motion. I have a ? Do you have any idea what the alloy or percentage of ti to x is in the wheelchair frame?
    As a comment to this discussion: I was at the VA a week ago and the "mobility" nurse (I am trying to get a Smart Drive), rolled her eyes and sighed when I ask how tilite was since Permobile took over. I didn't quarry further.

  3. #13
    Senior Member tooley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    1,542

    silly geese.. beautifully designed but the forks are on the wrong sides! (my Lasher came like that)

    I'm with oddity on this one- titanium is overkill. I'll stick to aluminum, although the comments and replies on their IG indicate they'll use any alloy you want.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Southeast, USA
    Posts
    533
    Quote Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if it coincided with their acquisition by Permobil. All their latest designs haven't been titanium, it's just an 'option' at this point. If Ti wasn't in their name I bet they'd have moved on like the rest of the industry did years ago. Ti is cool, but it's not functionally superior commensurate with its cost and fabrication/repair difficulties IMO. Steel and aluminum alloys can be made as durable and light as TiLite titanium frames...for less money. I see 'titanium' as a cool-factor buzz word the way TiLite uses it. Their frames aren't expected to last any longer than a Quickie and they're not always lighter than other alloys, which makes me wonder, "What's the point?!", beyond marketing.

    I also believe, should they endeavor to, Team HoC could really do the material justice, but that's probably true of anything they touch. Until they get too big for their britches and sell out to Permobil, of course!
    While I agree with all the statements about Tilite's customer service/workmanship going downhill since being acquired by Permobil, can an aluminum chair really be made as light as a Ti one? If so, why does Tilite say there is a 3lb difference on their site (assuming they aren't lying)? Because 3lbs is pretty substantial to me. It's unfortunate that Steve/HoC doesn't deal with insurance because their chairs seem top notch.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tooley View Post

    silly geese.. beautifully designed but the forks are on the wrong sides! (my Lasher came like that)

    I'm with oddity on this one- titanium is overkill. I'll stick to aluminum, although the comments and replies on their IG indicate they'll use any alloy you want.
    The last aluminum chair I had was the Invacare A4. It was too heavy. I saw a Colors aluminum chair at the Abilties Expo. It too was too heavy. You have to paint aluminum, which is a maintenance nightmare. I don't get the appeal. I know they say the Quickie Ti was not strong enough. But it was fine for me. And it was the lightest chair I ever had. It was my favorite. I am considering getting it back on the road if they still make parts for it.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post
    -------------- It's unfortunate that Steve/HoC doesn't deal with insurance because their chairs seem top notch.
    Most likely because they value their integrity and do not want to be 'owned' and directed by the insurance industry.

    Look at banks and how they used to operate; then compare with their function now that they are largely owned by insurance companies.
    Business ethics, are they out the window?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by giles88 View Post
    The problems with the Quickie Ti frames was the design, frame crush when adjusting the axle plate and retightening the bolts. I still have an old Quickie Ti frame (circa 1994), and rivnuts are all perfectly flush to the frame, every hole in it is clean, even the welds looks better than current Tilite stuff. And despite what my friend Titanium4motion says, yes Tilite did make that frame, I know this because Tilite told me they did.

    I think the thin wall Ti tube is okay, if the design of the frame doesn't have any thru bolts, and its a fixed welded back, not adjustable. I actually prefer aluminum over Ti, and once tried to get Tilite to make me an aluminum TR, but as often is the case with them, they refused.
    My old incomplete TR project has welded in tube reinforcing at all through bolt location. No crush there (I think it is a MK1 version?) It is too good to toss out and will give plenty of service when completed.
    http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/attachm...1&d=1490557168

    Does anyone have back canes and upholstery for a TR??

  8. #18
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    3,429
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post
    While I agree with all the statements about Tilite's customer service/workmanship going downhill since being acquired by Permobil, can an aluminum chair really be made as light as a Ti one? If so, why does Tilite say there is a 3lb difference on their site (assuming they aren't lying)? Because 3lbs is pretty substantial to me. It's unfortunate that Steve/HoC doesn't deal with insurance because their chairs seem top notch.

    Aluminum alloys can absolutely be made lighter than titanium chairs. Titanium's claim to fame is strength to weight, memory, and corrosion resistance. It's a heavier element than aluminum. Using proper heat treat and oval tubes Al becomes strong enough to last as long (or longer) than a TiLite expected life, as light, and cheaper. For actual data points, The lightest TiLite ZR ever posted here, with lots of custom bits, by stephen212 (you can find his post) is, according to his measurements, ~2lbs heavier than my aluminum/magnesium alloy chair (which I weighed on camera in a thread posted here titled "Christmas came in July"). It's also 10 years old this year and never an issue. Also, the oval tube Quickie Q7 can be configure as light, and RGK makes a chromolybendum chair even lighter. It is mostly hype, and cool factor, and marketing. I love TiLite designs, just don't buy into the notion it's worth an extra 2k. Especially as often as we see cracked frame threads pop up here. They can be a couple lbs lighter, in some minimalistic configurations, but as we've seen here over and over, manufacturer's weight claims are carefully massaged and rarely shake out in real world setups. For the record, I feel the exact same way about my Lashers, and have said as much. I'm "against" it as a value proposition, and for the fan boi, non-data supported, hype.

    Ultimately I think people should be able to pay for whatever they want, my opinions not withstanding. More choice is better than less. But, when they start spouting fan boi level hype, while also expecting other people to pay for them, my opinions become more vocal.

    Buy what you like, at the end of the day, but don't be too surprised when other people don't want to pay a premium for something without bonafide, data driven, medical necessity, factually supported, premium outcomes. Marketing one-sheets don't count.
    Last edited by Oddity; 08-28-2018 at 05:07 PM.
    "I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." - Edgar Allen Poe

    "If you only know your side of an issue, you know nothing." -John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

    "Even what those with the greatest reputation for knowing it all claim to understand and defend are but opinions..." -Heraclitus, Fragments

  9. #19

    Get your facts straight!

    Quote Originally Posted by giles88 View Post
    The problems with the Quickie Ti frames was the design, frame crush when adjusting the axle plate and retightening the bolts. I still have an old Quickie Ti frame (circa 1994), and rivnuts are all perfectly flush to the frame, every hole in it is clean, even the welds looks better than current Tilite stuff. And despite what my friend Titanium4motion says, yes Tilite did make that frame, I know this because Tilite told me they did.

    I think the thin wall Ti tube is okay, if the design of the frame doesn't have any thru bolts, and its a fixed welded back, not adjustable. I actually prefer aluminum over Ti, and once tried to get Tilite to make me an aluminum TR, but as often is the case with them, they refused.
    No, titanium4motion did not say TiLite made Quickie Ti 'chairs, reread my post. I indicated Quickie made their 'chairs inhouse which I stand correct by TiLite. I lost interest in Quickie products about 1994. I don't even know if their still in business?

    I talked with TiLite today and they were not even FDA approved to make 'chairs for Quickie. Sandvik Special Metals from Kennewick, Washington made the Quickie Ti wheelchairs. Sandvik Special Metals also machines titanium parts for other companies also.

    https://www.materials.sandvik/en/con...al-metals-llc/

    TiLite was FDA approved in 1999. TiSport/TiLite only manufacturers their wheelchairs only.

    I asked Tiite, "Where do they purchase their titanium tubing from?" and the representative told me, "That's proprietary information." Ouch! So how do you know your tubing came from China?

    TiLite uses Grade 9 titanium which is contains 3.0% aluminium, 2.5% vanadium and 94.5% of titanium. This grade is a compromise between the ease of welding and manufacturing of the "pure" grades and the high strength of Grade 5. It is commonly used in aircraft tubing for hydraulics and in athletic equipment.

    Also attached is one of the baddest 'chairs I ever saw. This is stephen212's 'chair. TiLite knows him well. I wanted a rigidizer bar like his and TiLite said they would do it for me but after 11 months the district manager told me, "TiLite would not make it for me due to waste and cost."

    In their YouTube video in their shop they have a huge banner that says, "The Titanium Experts". Yeah, right. I do have frustrations with TiLite with their Ti-Ordering process. I was so frustrated with them I have a three page Word document that I was going to post here but i kept my cool and did not post it. They still manufacturer custom 'chairs that are the best but they need competition to get their act together.

    I think of all of the veterans that comme home and need a good custom 'chair. Is TiLite up to it? An oval rigidizer bar that difficult to bend? TiLite, you guys use computer-aided-design software and you can not export the file to a bending machine? This is not rocket science here it is bending a tube.

    What ever happened to TiLite guy here at CareCure? Remember him?

    Also attached is a picture of Quickies Ti 'chair front tubing. The tubing is not that thick. It was made too long for me and I had to cut off about 1/2" for my feet to rest properly and silicone emblem off my shin guards from my TiSport first 'chair.


    Ti
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    "We must overcome difficulties rather than being overcome by difficulties."

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by titanium4motion View Post
    No, titanium4motion did not say TiLite made Quickie Ti 'chairs, reread my post.
    Reread my post, I was disagreeing with your statement that Quickie ti chairs were never made by Tilite...im saying they were made by Tilite.

    I'm no longer a Tilite Kool-Aid drinker. Should you choose to continue to do business with them, I wish you well and hope you have good experiences. Fortunately, for people that like Ti chairs they now have another option, AN ALTERNATIVE FOR TI CHAIRS..... Holub at HOC.


    Giles
    Last edited by giles88; 08-29-2018 at 03:16 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. FS: SPOX Wheels, Tilite Wheels, Tilite Armrest, Tilite Backrest
    By talagaja in forum Equipment & Services
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-16-2018, 03:00 PM
  2. Getting new TiLite chair, from Q7 to Tilite
    By Nick87 in forum Equipment
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 04-03-2013, 10:31 AM
  3. alternative to tilite scissor breaks
    By ckhouri in forum Equipment
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 06-08-2011, 01:59 PM
  4. tilite tr X tilite zr series 2
    By feabud in forum Equipment
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 11-03-2010, 01:03 PM
  5. FES, Alternative.
    By Fastasaturtle in forum Exercise & Recovery
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-24-2003, 01:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •