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Thread: Jerry?s Peptide or Electrical Stimulation only hope for chronic lumbar injury patient

  1. #1
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    Jerry?s Peptide or Electrical Stimulation only hope for chronic lumbar injury patient

    Though disappointing news for chronic lumbosacral injury patients but still some ray of hope for bladder bowel sexual function recovery in chronic lumbar injury patients with Epidural Stimulation or hopefully Jerry?s peptide will also be effective in curing BBS function too?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawaid View Post
    Though disappointing news for chronic lumbosacral injury patients but still some ray of hope for bladder bowel sexual function recovery in chronic lumbar injury patients with Epidural Stimulation or hopefully Jerry?s peptide will also be effective in curing BBS function too?
    They have done any injuries with epidural as low as yours or anyone who presents as having an LMN Injury. I can’t get anyone to tell me why they haven’t and I don’t think they will know unless they try. LMN injuries are at the back of the line. I understand prioritizing things like hand function and cardiovascular issues etc but it’s is frustrating that there is very little progress or even attempts for low injuries and for some interventions they really don’t know what benefit there might be but won’t try. Wise has even said he estimates 20% of all SCI to be LMN, so they are in some ways ignoring a decent sized group.

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    This is really really unfortunate and disappointing

  4. #4
    When Wise returns from overseas I'll ask him to report on our LMN research.

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    NRT believes that epidural stim will present benefits to LMN injuries.

    Also, that new fMRI study that showed signals reaching the brain from below injuries is fascinating. It's no LMN specifically, but they showed that some signal transits the injury and reaches the brain even though the patient doesn't "feel" anything. Has me wondering about some other stim applications.
    T3 complete since Sept 2015.

  6. #6
    Lower motor neuron injuries are just that...injuries to the motor neurons that come out of the spinal cord themselves, as opposed to the other neuronal tissue that is "higher" up in the spinal cord. Replacing a lost motor neuron is different then healing tissue within the spinal cord, like corticospinal, reticulospinal, or rubrospinal neurons, or the upper projections of sensory neurons that travel back up to the brain.

    Most kinds of electrical stimulation don't elicit a muscle contraction in LMN injuries because the motor neuron is what the electrical stimulation actually excites, and then when the motor neuron fires, the muscle tissue contracts. If the motor neuron is dead and gone, this cannot happen. Only a few devices can deliver the right stimulation parameters to get denervated muscles to contract, like the DenX2. I think Restorative Therapies' newer stimulation parameters have elicited contractions in some people with LMN damage, but I'm not sure.

    In addition to Wise, a few other researchers focus specifically on LMN injuries. Lief Havton at UCLA has an interest in cauda equina and conus medullaris injuries, which are what most people think of when they think of LMN spinal cord injuries - low thoracic or lumbar level injuries that mainly effect the lower extremities, and bowel, bladder, and sexual function.

    Randolph Ashton at the University of Wisconsin works on many different things, and one of them is growing motor neurons. I saw a presentation by him about a year ago where he talked about how motor neurons might be specific to certain muscles. His theory was that, for example, if your diaphragm has LMN damage after your spinal cord injury, you can't just implant any old neural stem cell or motor neuron, you have to implant a stem cell or motor neuron that is specifically genetically programmed to fire the diaphragm.

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    Lumbosacral spinal cord epidural stimulation improves voiding function after human spinal cord injury

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-26602-2

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    Lower motor neuron injuries are just that...injuries to the motor neurons that come out of the spinal cord themselves, as opposed to the other neuronal tissue that is "higher" up in the spinal cord. Replacing a lost motor neuron is different then healing tissue within the spinal cord, like corticospinal, reticulospinal, or rubrospinal neurons, or the upper projections of sensory neurons that travel back up to the brain.

    Most kinds of electrical stimulation don't elicit a muscle contraction in LMN injuries because the motor neuron is what the electrical stimulation actually excites, and then when the motor neuron fires, the muscle tissue contracts. If the motor neuron is dead and gone, this cannot happen. Only a few devices can deliver the right stimulation parameters to get denervated muscles to contract, like the DenX2. I think Restorative Therapies' newer stimulation parameters have elicited contractions in some people with LMN damage, but I'm not sure.

    In addition to Wise, a few other researchers focus specifically on LMN injuries. Lief Havton at UCLA has an interest in cauda equina and conus medullaris injuries, which are what most people think of when they think of LMN spinal cord injuries - low thoracic or lumbar level injuries that mainly effect the lower extremities, and bowel, bladder, and sexual function.

    Randolph Ashton at the University of Wisconsin works on many different things, and one of them is growing motor neurons. I saw a presentation by him about a year ago where he talked about how motor neurons might be specific to certain muscles. His theory was that, for example, if your diaphragm has LMN damage after your spinal cord injury, you can't just implant any old neural stem cell or motor neuron, you have to implant a stem cell or motor neuron that is specifically genetically programmed to fire the diaphragm.
    Thank you Tommy. That's a great explanation of what the situation is for those with LMN type injuries. Also, the neural stem piece remains complicated for the rest of the spinal cord as well. I've listened closely to the researchers explaining their stem cell work for SCI at UCSD. It doesn't appear that just any one generic neural stem cell will work proficiently in every level of injury. They're working hard to identify cells and which ones want to work in the various areas of injury along the cord. It would appear that Randolph Ashton has found the same to be true in the motor neurons for LMN injuries. There's so much more work that needs to be done on this complicated sorting and proficiency of cells for the cord.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    Thank you Tommy. That's a great explanation of what the situation is for those with LMN type injuries. Also, the neural stem piece remains complicated for the rest of the spinal cord as well. I've listened closely to the researchers explaining their stem cell work for SCI at UCSD. It doesn't appear that just any one generic neural stem cell will work proficiently in every level of injury. They're working hard to identify cells and which ones want to work in the various areas of injury along the cord. It would appear that Randolph Ashton has found the same to be true in the motor neurons for LMN injuries. There's so much more work that needs to be done on this complicated sorting and proficiency of cells for the cord.
    I have always understood that peripheral nerves regenerate very slowly. Once you get to T9 or lower you can have more LMN symptoms then UMN and you could have damage in the straight line of the cord and down below. However if they do grow slowly you could get to that point where they have regenerated making your problem in the straight portion of the cord. Unless your nerve roots were crushed.

  10. #10
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    No one replied yet how Jerry’s peptide will work? Can Peptide and Nogo work in all injury levels? Why trial in Spain is returning bladder bowel function while they are using autologous cells?

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