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Thread: Neuralstem jumps after surgery to repair spinal cord injuries shows positive results

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by George78 View Post
    ... or may be it's easier than originally thought and scientists are making it complex because they want each success to be confirmed again and again.. If success is confirmed, scientists will desperately seek for something that might eventually be wrong with the treatment and will suggest we wait for 20 years to be sure there will not be cancerous cells coming from the treatment..
    In the meantime we are all getting worst every year from our injuries and dying from our condition with no help from scientists..
    The SCI lab replication funding ran out from the NIH many years ago here in the United States. There were several lab contracted to verify important findings, among them was Os Steward of UC Irvine and Iztach Fischer of Drexel. There were several others contracted in their area of expertise. There's not funding to run the same exact experiments again and again. Anyway, not from the NIH. Scientists cannot get published in a journal if they just offer duplicated data that was already published. There are lots of tests needing done on cells before injecting such things in humans. A few years back there were tumor growths formed in a SCI replication study done in the Steward lab. I'm not aware of how they do research, funding and publications in Spain however.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by George78 View Post
    ... or may be it's easier than originally thought and scientists are making it complex because they want each success to be confirmed again and again.. If success is confirmed, scientists will desperately seek for something that might eventually be wrong with the treatment and will suggest we wait for 20 years to be sure there will not be cancerous cells coming from the treatment..
    In the meantime we are all getting worst every year from our injuries and dying from our condition with no help from scientists..
    The problem is finding funding in a for-profit system (here in the US). It's nearly impossible to put together a return on investment model that makes investment in SCI research worthwhile. You can spend tens of millions to target a tiny market of individuals who are effectively broke. For investors there are better choices.
    T3 complete since Sept 2015.

  3. #13
    Will soon have less of an impact on future generations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mize View Post
    The problem is finding funding in a for-profit system (here in the US). It's nearly impossible to put together a return on investment model that makes investment in SCI research worthwhile. You can spend tens of millions to target a tiny market of individuals who are effectively broke. For investors there are better choices.
    Exactly, and the countries with socialist healthcare programs are not going to pay for any exclusive and brand new spinal cord regenerative treatment? a cure for chronic SCI is simply out of the question especially for high quadriplegics. Maybe in 50 years when stem cells are broadly used for much more common ailments like eye sight, muscle tissue damage, etc ( huge market potential ). much more complex injuries like spinal cord injury and Trumatic brain injury may be able to reap some kind of benefit indirectly.

    It?s likely that stem cells or even genetic based therapies will be available to increase penis size ( and other cosmetics) before they are available for serious chronic spinal injury. The only serious conditions I see receiving beneficial stem cell treatments within the future are heart conditions and maybe organ transplantation, as in regenerating organs as it would be such a common treatment. ( Laboratories have grown various different organs [ in miniature form, non-functional] from the heart to the brain in vitro using stem cells.)

    Having said that there is various forms of potential for acute injuries in the near future… And honestly I take some solace in that, I am happy that at some point this abhorrent condition that can lead to a life of just… pathetic levels of dependency, Will soon have less of an impact on future generations.
    Last edited by JamesMcM; 05-21-2018 at 07:08 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member khmorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    The SCI lab replication funding ran out from the NIH many years ago here in the United States. There were several lab contracted to verify important findings, among them was Os Steward of UC Irvine and Iztach Fischer of Drexel. There were several others contracted in their area of expertise. There's not funding to run the same exact experiments again and again. Anyway, not from the NIH. Scientists cannot get published in a journal if they just offer duplicated data that was already published. There are lots of tests needing done on cells before injecting such things in humans. A few years back there were tumor growths formed in a SCI replication study done in the Steward lab. I'm not aware of how they do research, funding and publications in Spain however.
    You know far more about SCI research than I, but I would think that repeating cell testing would be very important, although boring as hell. One might run a test 10 times and always get the same result, but after 1000 repetitions, see an aberration caused cell differences, testing mistakes, etc. which need to be discovered before large scale human trials. It would seem like either automating the testing or out sourcing it (possibly to other countries) might be possible ways of reducing costs.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by khmorgan View Post
    You know far more about SCI research than I, but I would think that repeating cell testing would be very important, although boring as hell. One might run a test 10 times and always get the same result, but after 1000 repetitions, see an aberration caused cell differences, testing mistakes, etc. which need to be discovered before large scale human trials. It would seem like either automating the testing or out sourcing it (possibly to other countries) might be possible ways of reducing costs.
    That would make sense or at least worth giving it a try. Replications are vital. We wouldn't want potentially harmful cells and academia probably isn't the best platform for taking responsibility for such work and looking for the funding necessary to perform. It's pretty much left to the biotech labs to develop the cells. Academia is often asked to further test the cells in the various disease or injury models. The NIH funding for SCI replications kept the field accurate for quite awhile. If any lab reported extraordinary results and lots of hype was building, the replications were contracted so we'd know if everything as accurate and as plausible as thought to be in taking cells to human trial. This kept lots of worthless, harmful or expensive time wasting human trials from happening. We want successful trials, not failed ones. I believe a lot has been learned over the last decade and reducing costs is critical in getting anything moving forward and onto the right track. It's been a lot more difficult than anyone had first imagined.

  6. #16
    Senior Member lunasicc42's Avatar
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    So is it essentially replication study then replication of the replication study then replication of the replication replication study... Who decides when is enough to actually move forward
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by lunasicc42 View Post
    Who decides when is enough to actually move forward
    Move forward into what? InVivo - InVitro - Mice - Rat - Primate - Human Trial Phases/FDA - Open Market Sales from the Biotech? A lot of people are involved in the various decision stages involved in moving from basic science to the open market. Each one must meet a successful criteria in order to be taken to human therapy injections and safely sold to everyone without hesitation.

    For instance...if a lab finds tumor growth from the cells cropping up in rats, I'm not having you inject them into my expensive primates. If my primates get sick and go down hill, you're not getting a recommendation to start injecting into humans to see if they are safe in people. If I'm the CEO of a multi-billion dollar biotech, I'm going to be sure that the results are positive in all tests and more than one set of people have confirmed. I've got too much at risk and will lose my entire company if someone along the way screwed up or something was missed.
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 05-24-2018 at 01:15 AM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member khmorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunasicc42 View Post
    So is it essentially replication study then replication of the replication study then replication of the replication replication study... Who decides when is enough to actually move forward
    Sorry, I didn't mean uncontrolled replication. Replication in random labs might discover an aberration, but quite likely it would be dismissed as incompetence. The tests must be well controlled, documented, and reported in order to add to the respected body of knowledge.
    I only meant that just because a few chronic patients showed improvement, I wouldn't jump into line for surgery.
    Personally, I think, as Grammy put it, this problem is "a lot more difficult than anyone had first imagined" because there isn't an isolated solution to fixing the spinal cord, but more of a general how to repair CNS tissue problem.
    Unfortunately, a cure for SCI is currently a distant third or more behind a cure for cancer, Alzheimer's, heart disease, etc. Fortunately, some scientists do not have "me too" personalities.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by khmorgan View Post
    Unfortunately, a cure for SCI is currently a distant third or more behind a cure for cancer, Alzheimer's, heart disease, etc. Fortunately, some scientists do not have "me too" personalities.
    Who cares about a cure for SCI ?.. As we're growing older we're all getting worst, bones, joints, uties, heart condition... The important is to get better, personally I don't care about walking again, being an ab sitting in a wheelchair will be perfect for me..
    Tomorrow if I decide to kill myself I can do that..
    But if I want to get some stem cells in my spinal cord, I can't..
    That's the problem: scientist are using us as they wish, rats have a better chance to get better than us..

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by George78 View Post
    But if I want to get some stem cells in my spinal cord, I can't..
    But Pauly1 posted this last week in a different thread that you could get some stem cells for free right there in Spain.

    Dear Sir: Your lesion corresponds to an area of injury to cervical level with gliosis

    - This can be treated with our cell therapy medicament without the need for direct surgery (only intrathecal stromal cell administration supported in autologous plasma ) - You can not expect great improvements, but you could achieve recovery from sensitivity, spasticity, neuropathic pain and improvement in sphincter control.

    The problem is that this treatment can only currently be done in our hospital, at no cost to patients and we can only take care of patients from the Spanish social security system. We can only treat a maximum of 60-80 patients / year and at this time we have more than 400 patients waiting for treatment.

    Sincerely,

    J Vaquero

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