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Thread: Botox bladder and ditropan

  1. #1

    Botox bladder and ditropan

    I've been having increased spasms. I went from indwelling cathing to IC about a year ago. I get up 2x a night to cath. Usually before bed, 2am, and again at 6am. I've been wet more often lately. I had urodynamics done 2 days ago. My volumes are down to under 300. I asked my uro about botox. We are going to try ditropan again. I tried it years ago and didnt like how dry everything became. Mouth, etc. What advantages would I notice from botox?

  2. #2
    I had similar problems back in the 80s and 90s. Ditropan was useful for a short period of time as a training tool. Longer term solution for me was getting rid of kidney stones and the baclofen pump. Long-term use of ditropan is linked to dementia. Dry mouth can lead to dental problems that can lead to many other health problems including cardiac problems and immune disorders including the spread of infection. Perhaps it could even indirectly lead to more UTIs, which may be the cause of your spasms in the first place. Finding the root cause rather than treating the symptoms would be best.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by HuskerDude View Post
    I've been having increased spasms. I went from indwelling cathing to IC about a year ago. I get up 2x a night to cath. Usually before bed, 2am, and again at 6am. I've been wet more often lately. I had urodynamics done 2 days ago. My volumes are down to under 300. I asked my uro about botox. We are going to try ditropan again. I tried it years ago and didnt like how dry everything became. Mouth, etc. What advantages would I notice from botox?
    Do you mean you are having increased bladder spasms or muscular spasticity?

    If bladder spasms...your bladder is holding only 300ml of urine, and if you aren't paying particular attention to your liquid intake, you are going to have spasms more often because you full bladder has to eliminate the urine more frequently. Myrbetriq (mirabegron), a beta-3 adrenergic agonists, is a new class of drugs available for overactive bladder. This drug is not an anticholinergic and does not have the dry mouth side effect or the loosely linked relationship to dementia.

    Botox may accomplish the same thing, and allow you to hold urine longer without triggering bladder spasms. It worked well for me for about 3 courses, but progressively lost effectiveness. My fourth course of Botox was not effective at all. There have been a few discussions on Care Cure regarding the diminishing effective of Botox.

  4. #4
    IF it works, Botox totally relaxes the bladder for at least 6 months. No side effects from medication.
    If the short acting Oxybutynin(Ditropan) causes issues you can try the long acting and take once or twice a day and it does not have the ups and downs of the short acting but more steady delivery and can have less side effects.
    CWO
    The SCI-Nurses are advanced practice nurses specializing in SCI/D care. They are available to answer questions, provide education, and make suggestions which you should always discuss with your physician/primary health care provider before implementing. Medical diagnosis is not provided, nor do the SCI-Nurses provide nursing or medical care through their responses on the CareCure forums.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ChesBay's Avatar
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    My bladder kicks off at about 300 cc's usually. It would be tough for me to wake up twice during the night to cath and get a decent night's sleep. I have been using a regular 32 oz. legbag and condom cath at night for almost 40 years. When I wake up and get out of bed, I cath, wash out the legbag with some Ivory hand soap and then a bleach solution so it is dry and ready for next use.

    Realize everyone's bladder is different, this system has allowed me to get a fairly normal night's sleep.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ChesBay View Post
    My bladder kicks off at about 300 cc's usually. It would be tough for me to wake up twice during the night to cath and get a decent night's sleep. I have been using a regular 32 oz. legbag and condom cath at night for almost 40 years. When I wake up and get out of bed, I cath, wash out the legbag with some Ivory hand soap and then a bleach solution so it is dry and ready for next use.

    Realize everyone's bladder is different, this system has allowed me to get a fairly normal night's sleep.
    But, isn't daily on off of a condom catheter hard on the skin of your penis or do you cath through the condom catheter during the day?

  7. #7
    Senior Member ChesBay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    But, isn't daily on off of a condom catheter hard on the skin of your penis or do you cath through the condom catheter during the day?
    I use a Rochester condom cath without adhesive. A method that has worked very well over the years is using two Rochester reusable foam straps, one over the other. I don't understand the physics / friction of it but I only put each on snug, not tight and rarely to never blow a cath. When out and about I do the same thing I cath a couple times a day but I am not bound to a rigid cathing schedule or accidents.

    Using this method I don't cath through the condom cath. I keep a couple 32 oz. bags circulating and always clean out leg bag at cathing. Also clean off meatus with a little Ivory and then alcohol to get rid of any lubricant and trying for maximum sanitary.
    Last edited by ChesBay; 03-11-2018 at 11:00 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by gjnl View Post
    But, isn't daily on off of a condom catheter hard on the skin of your penis or do you cath through the condom catheter during the day?
    It's a bit tricky, and you're gonna have a small risk of leakage in the midst of everything, but it is doable to cath through the condom catheter. Takes some practice, but this is what I do and as Chesbay says you don't have to absolutely watch the clock and cath early and risk accidents.

    Just gotta make sure that bladder pressures aren't too high before it empties... otherwise you risk distending your bladder and causing all kinds of other problems. Luckily my pressures are still pretty low. It would really mess up my lifestyle (and beer consumption) if my pressures got to high and I had to figure out an alternative.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ChesBay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funklab View Post
    It would really mess up my lifestyle (and beer consumption) if my pressures got to high and I had to figure out an alternative.
    I will confess though my beer consumption has decreased somewhat over the years it was originally a prime motivator for me also

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ChesBay View Post
    I use a Rochester condom cath without adhesive. A method that has worked very well over the years is using two Rochester reusable foam straps, one over the other. I don't understand the physics / friction of it but I only put each on snug, not tight and rarely to never blow a cath. When out and about I do the same thing I cath a couple times a day but I am not bound to a rigid cathing schedule or accidents.

    Using this method I don't cath through the condom cath. I keep a couple 32 oz. bags circulating and always clean out leg bag at cathing. Also clean off meatus with a little Ivory and then alcohol to get rid of any lubricant and trying for maximum sanitary.
    Quote Originally Posted by funklab View Post
    It's a bit tricky, and you're gonna have a small risk of leakage in the midst of everything, but it is doable to cath through the condom catheter. Takes some practice, but this is what I do and as Chesbay says you don't have to absolutely watch the clock and cath early and risk accidents.

    Just gotta make sure that bladder pressures aren't too high before it empties... otherwise you risk distending your bladder and causing all kinds of other problems. Luckily my pressures are still pretty low. It would really mess up my lifestyle (and beer consumption) if my pressures got to high and I had to figure out an alternative.
    The issue I see with cathing through a condom catheter is threading the catheter through the condom catheter tube without touching any surfaces of the condom catheter with the intermittent catheter before you get to the opening in the penis...lots of chances to contaminate the tip of the catheter before it enters the urethra.

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