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Thread: Q&A: Epidural Stimulation and Bladder, Bowel, & Sexual Function

  1. #11
    I don't have any info saying the Edgerton version is any better other than there's no need for surgery. Results wise, I've not seen anything. But I could be wrong.
    More importantly though is we're already starting to have a conversation about the different types of machines and commercialization BEFORE we have facts about the efficacy. The argument is starting to move away from "is epidural stimulation going to improve function" to "what kind of machine is better". The cart is still way in front of the horse on this. Cdrf has already partnered with the expectation of commercialization before the verdict is in. When companies make an investment they do so with the thought of a return, so I hope we first have the basic information on epidural stimulation before we start making competing machines that then will need to go into people to make their money back. If we get to that point, might as well just go to Thailand or wherever.
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    I asked a while ago about females. They were going to try to recruit someone.

    Why ask about this ‘old tech?’ Seems Edgerton is more advanced?

  2. #12
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    Did you see this for Canada?
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    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    Did you see this for Canada?
    I believe they want to do a trial of NRT :-)

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by StemCells&AtomBombs View Post
    I don't have any info saying the Edgerton version is any better other than there's no need for surgery. Results wise, I've not seen anything. But I could be wrong.
    More importantly though is we're already starting to have a conversation about the different types of machines and commercialization BEFORE we have facts about the efficacy. The argument is starting to move away from "is epidural stimulation going to improve function" to "what kind of machine is better". The cart is still way in front of the horse on this. Cdrf has already partnered with the expectation of commercialization before the verdict is in. When companies make an investment they do so with the thought of a return, so I hope we first have the basic information on epidural stimulation before we start making competing machines that then will need to go into people to make their money back. If we get to that point, might as well just go to Thailand or wherever.
    Obviously they have done testing to make sure its better than off the shelf pain stimulators that are currently being used.
    As a company that plans to bring it to market they wouldn't bother if it wouldn't be commercially viable.

    If you invest then you can see the results, but at that point you will have signed an NDA and then can't talk about them here.
    I think thats going to be your biggest problem in getting the info so you can put it on your blog.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    Did you see this for Canada?
    I wonder what this means by using that particular photo? Are they wanting to do fundraising to help G-Therapeutics run a future phase of the STIMO trial?

  6. #16
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    No clue. So out of the loop. Tech moves so fast that I only gleam half the info. lol
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    I wonder what this means by using that particular photo? Are they wanting to do fundraising to help G-Therapeutics run a future phase of the STIMO trial?
    I'll give them a buzz.
    But it is a worry to me. There are already a few test sites organised that have already started (Kentucky, Mayo, Minnesota). Wouldn't it make sense to see the outcomes of these trials first. I'm not saying that things shouldn't be replicated, but it seems that now everyone wants money to do this trial. To me it would make more sense now to wait on what is already going on, and work on other stuff. People always say that it's not a zero sum game (funding for one doesn't take away from others), but the more money going here is bound to take away from other studies.
    OK. I'm not a big fan, I admit that, but I am happy to see what the trials bring. I just wish it didn't look so much like a kids soccer match with every kid chasing the ball.
    Am I wrong to be concerned??????
    Dennis Tesolat
    www.StemCellsandAtomBombs.blogspot.com

    "Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom."
    Martin Luther King

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    I wonder what this means by using that particular photo? Are they wanting to do fundraising to help G-Therapeutics run a future phase of the STIMO trial?
    Does the picture have something to do with G-Therapeutics? I don't understand the connection.
    Dennis Tesolat
    www.StemCellsandAtomBombs.blogspot.com

    "Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom."
    Martin Luther King

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    I wonder what this means by using that particular photo? Are they wanting to do fundraising to help G-Therapeutics run a future phase of the STIMO trial?
    I saw that as well, I asked them and it was just a randomly selected picture to illustrate the point. They aren't funding G-Theraputics.

  10. #20
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    I'm totally opposed to the idea of limiting these trials until we know more. These trials are very expensive and the funding on the commercial side is paltry. For mainstream medicine it costs many tens of millions of USD to bring a new technology to market. For SCI the market is so tiny that traditional investors aren't even remotely interested. Venture capital basically laughs at the potential returns. In fact, I'm fairly certain that, without those investors who have a personal connection to SCI, there would be zero private investment.

    So these parallel efforts are each vital. Sure it would be better if they were all under one umbrella, but that option doesn't exist. It's also important that these results be replicated but different groups.
    As to the different machines, electrodes and stimulation protocols, this is the biggest challenge. We know how individualized our injuries are; no two "T3 complete" have the same issues. Fortunately there is evidence that these protocols can be fast tracked using machine learning.

    NRT (who is also involved with the implanted systems) has also seen similar results between transcutaneous and implanted. To think that their only advantage is that they're non-surgical is both incorrect (since they also do implanted) and a bit nutty since any implanted system cannot achieve new advances in the electrode design without further surgeries which may be impossible owing to scar tissue and other risks.

    CDRF only started shouting about this as part of their holiday fund raising. Nothing in their PRs was new - they've been in the loop for over a year - and I sincerely doubt their funding claims. At the end of the day CDRF, like all foundations, is first in the business of building their foundation. SCI research is secondary to empire building.

    What NRT needs is funding to complete these trials. The portable prototype is done, but progress had slowed to a crawl owing to the high costs of the trials. It would be great if CDRF lived up to their hype marketing, but I fear they simply used NRT's efforts to fill their own coffers.
    T3 complete since Sept 2015.

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