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Thread: Putting antibiotic pills in bladder?

  1. #11
    Senior Member bigtop1's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your input on this subject. I'd like to put it to rest. I will be following what the majority of you advise. Time to get ready for the Holidays. Looking forward to a nice turkey dinner. Lin, I apologize for taking over the majority of your post but, you can tell by the replies, most suggest not to instill foreign, unapproved medication into the bladder.
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  2. #12
    lin, the gent is meant to be used daily to prevent uti, 2x per day actually. its inexpensive as well. i actually mix night instill with hydrocleanse.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by fuentejps View Post
    lin, the gent is meant to be used daily to prevent uti, 2x per day actually. its inexpensive as well. i actually mix night instill with hydrocleanse.
    Is it cheaper in the US? Gentamycin (which was good for 10 days refrigerated?) cost me 68$ per bag (204$/month). And Tobramycin cost a bit less at 49$ per bag (but was only good for 5-7 days refrigerated, so 196-245$/month). I might have reversed how many days each was good for but it cost similar in the end. I was lucky to get insurance to pay for it later on but still it's not super cheap, or maybe it's cheaper than hydrocleanse (we can't get it here)? Or cheaper than treating a UTI if you're in the US (we don't pay to see docs)? Who knows.

    I didn't mean to trash the whole Gentamycin instillations, it's just that some studies/people tend to sing its praises like it's the perfect tool for prevention. I was just trying to be clear that I *personally* didn't find it to work too great - it does come with its downsides and isn't going to cure a UTI that's already set in (at least it didn't for me). I wouldn't tell people not to try it though, works better for some than others

  4. #14
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    I know how gentamicin is to be used, I've been on it for some time. Mine says it's good for 30 days in the fridge and insurance only allows me to refill every 30 days. Using it twice a day does not last for 30 days.

    Im no longer able to afford microcyn products to prevent uti as I was before. I'm unique in that I can tell when a uti is coming on, and have a 100% accuracy so far. I can tell one is brewing before the tests come up positive, and will begin trying to hold it off such as with the gentamicin only for it to culture positive when they check again a few days later. So my uro has a lot of trust in me when it comes to treating my uti, and u have a standing cipro script to begin after giving a sample for culture when I know I have a uti. I try to avoid the oral antibiotics though for all of the regular reasons plus my severe GI troubles.

    I'd read here about people who used antibiotic pills in their bladder, and wanted to get more information. But so far it seems those people haven't come out of the woodwork here.

    I don't believe hydrocleanse is available anymore? Since oculus sold it and microcyn. Hydrocleanse used to be for purchase directly from oculus. Cheapest option I could find now is around $15 for 16oz of vetericyn.
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  5. #15
    hydrocleanse is still available from Sonoma, same stuff. I just bought a case.
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    I know how gentamicin is to be used, I've been on it for some time. Mine says it's good for 30 days in the fridge and insurance only allows me to refill every 30 days. Using it twice a day does not last for 30 days.

    Im no longer able to afford microcyn products to prevent uti as I was before. I'm unique in that I can tell when a uti is coming on, and have a 100% accuracy so far. I can tell one is brewing before the tests come up positive, and will begin trying to hold it off such as with the gentamicin only for it to culture positive when they check again a few days later. So my uro has a lot of trust in me when it comes to treating my uti, and u have a standing cipro script to begin after giving a sample for culture when I know I have a uti. I try to avoid the oral antibiotics though for all of the regular reasons plus my severe GI troubles.

    I'd read here about people who used antibiotic pills in their bladder, and wanted to get more information. But so far it seems those people haven't come out of the woodwork here.

    I don't believe hydrocleanse is available anymore? Since oculus sold it and microcyn. Hydrocleanse used to be for purchase directly from oculus. Cheapest option I could find now is around $15 for 16oz of vetericyn.
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  6. #16
    its cheap here. I get 90 day supply of 2ml vials(good for a year) we mix up a batch(enough for 2x day 1 week) 1x week. our ins covers it and saline, cath syringes and needles to draw it.
    Quote Originally Posted by twistties View Post
    Is it cheaper in the US? Gentamycin (which was good for 10 days refrigerated?) cost me 68$ per bag (204$/month). And Tobramycin cost a bit less at 49$ per bag (but was only good for 5-7 days refrigerated, so 196-245$/month). I might have reversed how many days each was good for but it cost similar in the end. I was lucky to get insurance to pay for it later on but still it's not super cheap, or maybe it's cheaper than hydrocleanse (we can't get it here)? Or cheaper than treating a UTI if you're in the US (we don't pay to see docs)? Who knows.

    I didn't mean to trash the whole Gentamycin instillations, it's just that some studies/people tend to sing its praises like it's the perfect tool for prevention. I was just trying to be clear that I *personally* didn't find it to work too great - it does come with its downsides and isn't going to cure a UTI that's already set in (at least it didn't for me). I wouldn't tell people not to try it though, works better for some than others
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by twistties View Post

    I didn't mean to trash the whole Gentamycin instillations, it's just that some studies/people tend to sing its praises like it's the perfect tool for prevention. I was just trying to be clear that I *personally* didn't find it to work too great - it does come with its downsides and isn't going to cure a UTI that's already set in (at least it didn't for me). I wouldn't tell people not to try it though, works better for some than others

    Sorry if I missed this, but what were your problems/complaints about using Gent instillations for UTI prevention? Yes, it is not to treat UTIs that are already present.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    I know how gentamicin is to be used, I've been on it for some time. Mine says it's good for 30 days in the fridge and insurance only allows me to refill every 30 days. Using it twice a day does not last for 30 days.

    Im no longer able to afford microcyn products to prevent uti as I was before. I'm unique in that I can tell when a uti is coming on, and have a 100% accuracy so far. I can tell one is brewing before the tests come up positive, and will begin trying to hold it off such as with the gentamicin only for it to culture positive when they check again a few days later. So my uro has a lot of trust in me when it comes to treating my uti, and u have a standing cipro script to begin after giving a sample for culture when I know I have a uti. I try to avoid the oral antibiotics though for all of the regular reasons plus my severe GI troubles.

    I'd read here about people who used antibiotic pills in their bladder, and wanted to get more information. But so far it seems those people haven't come out of the woodwork here.

    I don't believe hydrocleanse is available anymore? Since oculus sold it and microcyn. Hydrocleanse used to be for purchase directly from oculus. Cheapest option I could find now is around $15 for 16oz of vetericyn.
    Oculus Innovative Sciences merely changed it's name to Sonoma Pharmaceuticals. They did not change their line of products. And to be clear, Vetericyn is not a Sonoma Pharmaceuticals product. Vetericyn is made and marketed by Innovacyn and does not use Microcyn Technology. If you want Microcyn Technology in the veterinarian products, you would need to purchase TheracynAH. which incidentally is the same formulation as HydroCleanse. As "fuentejps" pointed out HydroCleanse is available. Call 1-800-759-9305 in the United States to order.

    I have a similar relationship with my urologist, wherein I have a prescription for an antibiotic that I take when I know I have a urinary tract infection. I know because of the severe autonomia that I suffer. When I get this severe autonomia with cloudy, foul smelling urine, I take a specimen to the lab (standing order) for a urinalysis (UA) and culture & sensitivity (C&S). Then I take the antibiotic until the results are available from the C&S, usually 2-3 days, at which time, my urologist changes the antibiotic to the most effective one for a 12-14 day course. In my case, my urologist prefers Macrobid instead of Cipro. He feels Cipro should be saved for really stubborn infections, kind of the antibiotic of last resort. Macrobid, knocks down the symptoms enough to make life bearable for a few days.

    That said, I've not had to take an antibiotic in close to years. I use HydroCleanse or TheracynAH instilled once per day, at night, and retained for about 5 minutes, then drained. I don't use a closed collection system. I clean my leg bag with isopropyl alcohol twice a day (morning and night) and my night drain bottle with a bleach solution. I have a supra pubic catheter. I drink about 1 liter of water a day and whatever other fluids are in my dietary intake.
    Last edited by gjnl; 11-08-2017 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by hlh View Post
    Sorry if I missed this, but what were your problems/complaints about using Gent instillations for UTI prevention? Yes, it is not to treat UTIs that are already present.
    Yes I'm aware it's for prevention! I just wanted to make sure she knew that, her question was a little vague on how she would be using it.

    My problem with Gentamycin was that I got a few false negatives on C&S, and my former urologist later admitted that this is exactly why he wasn't a fan of it.

    I'm a little like Lin and weird in that I can tell right away when I have a UTI starting and I've never been wrong. My issue with false negatives is that my fever never reaches 38oC as per guidelines to treat here, so if I get a false negative too I might just without treatment if my urologist isn't around. Most docs around here won't treat without C&S results even if you show every other possible symptom of infection. Some won't even treat a C&S that comes back as 2+ organisms because they say it's contaminated. Could be but still. I have a really good specialist now but I know at some point I'll have to deal with GP or other.

    So I still got UTIs despite Genta. And I know for a fact that when I used to feel a UTI coming on, doing Gentamycin only gave a false negative early on and/or later drew out the time to get a useful C&S. So I wouldn't get treated until days later than I normally would. Might not sound like a big deal but...I've ended up hospitalized with a raging UTI or sepsis more than once because I went untreated for too long. Because:

    a) I don't get the typical fever (though I feel feverish and have all other symptoms) and/or
    b) I got a false negative or a 2+ result (possibly contaminated) on a C&S.

    Then I'm stuck waiting until my urologist gets back in town, or go to the ER if serious enough and even then, the has ER discharged me more than once with urosepsis. Every time I didn't have a high enough fever = they didn't take me seriously until I got septic shock so yikes. I'd rather put all the chances on my side and just not use Gentamycin for now even if I get an extra UTI or two (promptly treated), just to avoid the chance of a false negative and not getting treated soon enough. I'm not saying I won't try it again but I'm working with new team of doctors and until I work all the kinks out and "what ifs", I'm just not willing to risk false negatives!

    Cost was another issue. 200+$/month and insurance didn't cover syringes so add another 30-60$/month and I need sterile syringes for other purposes daily so it adds up. Now insurance covers the Gent, but not the syringes or saline haha. We'll get there

    Quote Originally Posted by fuentejps View Post
    its cheap here. I get 90 day supply of 2ml vials(good for a year) we mix up a batch(enough for 2x day 1 week) 1x week. our ins covers it and saline, cath syringes and needles to draw it.
    Good to know! That's a great way to do it. I was told by the pharmacy it wasn't an option to mix it yourself. Will ask if/when I try it again. Currently fighting my insurance to cover more than 5 sterile syringes/month to use daily for other purposes and they don't cover saline either so it might be a challenge.

    Did your urologist prescribe the 2mL vials? Without hesitation? Would certainly cut cost and be easier than picking up a new one every week. Here seems like they really insist that everything be pre-mixed, pre-made for you and/or handled by home nurses, though I do get a bit of slack because they know I do everything myself anyway. Who knows with the new specialist, worth asking if/when I try it again.

  10. #20
    yah, my uro prefers this method. My ins will cover either way. this is just way simpler. I get my saline, syringes and cath syringes from my urological supplier not pharmacy. I know sveral ppl that do it this way and few others that get it premixed and frozen. unmixed the exp date is at least a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by twistties View Post
    Yes I'm aware it's for prevention! I just wanted to make sure she knew that, her question was a little vague on how she would be using it.

    My problem with Gentamycin was that I got a few false negatives on C&S, and my former urologist later admitted that this is exactly why he wasn't a fan of it.

    I'm a little like Lin and weird in that I can tell right away when I have a UTI starting and I've never been wrong. My issue with false negatives is that my fever never reaches 38oC as per guidelines to treat here, so if I get a false negative too I might just without treatment if my urologist isn't around. Most docs around here won't treat without C&S results even if you show every other possible symptom of infection. Some won't even treat a C&S that comes back as 2+ organisms because they say it's contaminated. Could be but still. I have a really good specialist now but I know at some point I'll have to deal with GP or other.

    So I still got UTIs despite Genta. And I know for a fact that when I used to feel a UTI coming on, doing Gentamycin only gave a false negative early on and/or later drew out the time to get a useful C&S. So I wouldn't get treated until days later than I normally would. Might not sound like a big deal but...I've ended up hospitalized with a raging UTI or sepsis more than once because I went untreated for too long. Because:

    a) I don't get the typical fever (though I feel feverish and have all other symptoms) and/or
    b) I got a false negative or a 2+ result (possibly contaminated) on a C&S.

    Then I'm stuck waiting until my urologist gets back in town, or go to the ER if serious enough and even then, the has ER discharged me more than once with urosepsis. Every time I didn't have a high enough fever = they didn't take me seriously until I got septic shock so yikes. I'd rather put all the chances on my side and just not use Gentamycin for now even if I get an extra UTI or two (promptly treated), just to avoid the chance of a false negative and not getting treated soon enough. I'm not saying I won't try it again but I'm working with new team of doctors and until I work all the kinks out and "what ifs", I'm just not willing to risk false negatives!

    Cost was another issue. 200+$/month and insurance didn't cover syringes so add another 30-60$/month and I need sterile syringes for other purposes daily so it adds up. Now insurance covers the Gent, but not the syringes or saline haha. We'll get there



    Good to know! That's a great way to do it. I was told by the pharmacy it wasn't an option to mix it yourself. Will ask if/when I try it again. Currently fighting my insurance to cover more than 5 sterile syringes/month to use daily for other purposes and they don't cover saline either so it might be a challenge.

    Did your urologist prescribe the 2mL vials? Without hesitation? Would certainly cut cost and be easier than picking up a new one every week. Here seems like they really insist that everything be pre-mixed, pre-made for you and/or handled by home nurses, though I do get a bit of slack because they know I do everything myself anyway. Who knows with the new specialist, worth asking if/when I try it again.
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