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Thread: Why Don't We Have a Cure for Spinal Cord Injury? 2016

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    Answer my questions first and maybe we will get closer to answering your question.

    1) Who is accountable for delivering Cures?
    2) What is the SCI Community? What characteristics does it have and what value can be drawn from it?

    I could give you different (and sometimes long) answers depending on which angle I look at it, but that would be confusing and it would take too long.
    It wasn't my intention to argue with you in case I gave you this impression.

    I am going to leave it here and take one more break from CC.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  2. #72
    Should they inflict spinal cord injuries on animals for research? Yes and no for different reasons. Yes to reduce human suffering. No for ethical reasons. I think the ethics prevail. I'm not saying this is the reason why we don't have a cure. But it is one factor that limits the degree of research.

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by BSgimp View Post

    Why Don't We Have a Cure for Spinal Cord Injury?

    1. Slow Methodologies of Medical Science
    2. Complexity of Nervous Systems
    3. Low number of people with SCI
    4. Lack of Monetary Incentives
    5. Lack of cooperation between Labs
    6. Lack of Social Awareness
    7. Big Pharma

    I wonder how fast thing would go if Mark Zuckerberg would get SCI. Or some other billionaire. I think the best bet is to inspire Bill Gates to help us out.
    I agree with pretty much all of your conclusions BSgimp, though I'd probably put Complexity of the nervous system as #1.

    If you're talking a "true" cure, which to me means I can sever your spinal cord completely, let you be paralyzed for years and then fully (or even for the most part) restore the function of your spinal cord I think if Zuckerberg got SCI after winning the White House after becoming the world's first multi-trillionaire with a popularity of 99% and political control of both houses of congress and devoted the entire resources of the US to curing spinal cord injury we could have something resembling a cure in 50 years, and I feel like even given those resources that's a bit optimistic. Seems much more feasible to me to put a man on Jupiter than to cure chronic spinal cord injury. The biology of it is just a bitch.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    I could give you different (and sometimes long) answers depending on which angle I look at it, but that would be confusing and it would take too long.
    It wasn't my intention to argue with you in case I gave you this impression.

    I am going to leave it here and take one more break from CC.

    Paolo
    It wasn't argument-seeking. The questions weren't explicitly directed to you. I just hoped you would offer your answers as you have seen initiatives, organisations and hopes rise and fall over the last 10+ years. It's important that new groups don't go down the same rabbit holes as those advocates/activists before them and avoid making the same mistakes.

  5. #75
    I think PFP asks two very important questions for us to consider. Sadly, he does it after making sarcastic and smug comments. My experience with questions raised in this manner is that the author is either being rhetorical and feels that they already know the answer or that they don't actually care about other people's opinions. His response to Paolo that Paolo first needs to answer the questions before PFP even starts a dialogue underlines my concern over PFP's intentions.
    This is not a high school debate team where we're trying to score points in front of an audience, it's a place where people bring their hopes and knowledge in the hopes of sharing information and even efficating a cure someday.
    Smug and sarcastic comments lowers the level of discussion and even prevent discussion as no one likes to be made fun of for their opinion. It leaves people disengaged a d disinterested.
    I'm not some kind of liberal who things all ideas are correct or even equal, but that should be decided through a discussion of facts and not through disparaging others.
    I like a good laugh, but I'm not interested in doing so by making fun of other people's ideas, especially when i don't have my own ideas to raise. I also understand that things get heated and we may make snide comments, but this thread is not heated.
    Let's have conversations that are based on fact and the merit of ideas. I think if we all do this we can make it a better board.

    So since two questions were raised, I'd like to answer them, especially because they're good questions.

    Cure is a commodity. Therefore it is the responsibility of the person who wants that commodity and the person who makes the commodity and that defines the relationship between the producer and the consumer.
    Please don't take commodity to mean luxury (and therefore we can?t have it), but it's a thing to be made and sold (and please don't infer that that lowers the sincerity of the scientists who make it). But at some point, cure will be produced and then it has to be sold, and so the wheel turns. Whether the commodity will be sold to profit a company or society as whole also defines our relationship to cure.
    *
    Community itself is not a static thing. Groups are added to it and groups are deleted from it. The one basic thing that makes a community is common goal (usually in the face of some adversity). Community could dissolve with failure and have its solidarity weakened, orp get bigger with success thus increasing its solidarity.
    SCI community is exactly the same as the above. If PFP means the SCI community that wants cure, then it's not the same as the whole of the SCI community as there are some who do not want cure or do not think that it is achievable. Again, some people from this group will be added to the SCI cure community, and some will believe that cure is not something the any longer think is possible and will leave the group.
    *
    Community is fluid and community can be built (it doesn't just occur in nature). So let's now look at what is now or could be possibly be the SCI cure community (SCICC). Does it exist now? Yes. It includes those on this page, even those on the edges. Those who we don't see on this page trying to get cure, and clearly includes both the injured and their family and friends. Are the scientists part of the community? Depends on how deeply involved they are with the community as a whole.
    *
    Cure and community are intrinsically linked. Cure as a commodity has to go somewhere if it's achieved, but it will not be achieved unless there is an active consumer market and/or demand.
    People with SCI and their families and friends is not such a huge group, and the SCICC is much much smaller. Therefore, where does most of the research go, to the place where there is a market for the research (again, this does not take away from the scientists who have a huge commitment to curing paralysis, but we do all realise that money is needed and when money is invested, there needs to be return, either financial or social).
    Now, I'm not saying that there won't be a cure if the SCICC community is small or weak, but it will take more time as it will not get the resources it needs (these resources are both private investment, private donations, government money, time, energy).
    So, the value in the SCICC community is that it is what creates the both the market and the urgency. Strengthening the community means increasing the market for cure and the resources that it gets.
    How do you build community, that's a different conversation, but a necessary one.
    That's my short answer to PFP. Probably we will disagree, but hopefully we can have this debate in an intelligent and respectful way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    An inspirational leader to take us to the promised land? One ring to rule them all? There can be only one? I've seen this show before. We just need a couple of dragons and an electrically stimulated SCI zombie army uprising and we'll be ready to wage war on paralysis.

    Serious questions:

    1) Who is accountable for delivering Cures?
    2) What is the SCI Community? What characteristics does it have and what value can be drawn from it?

    FPF
    Last edited by StemCells&AtomBombs; 11-08-2017 at 11:02 PM.

  6. #76

    8. Religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by BSgimp View Post

    Why Don't We Have a Cure for Spinal Cord Injury?

    1. Slow Methodologies of Medical Science
    2. Complexity of Nervous Systems
    3. Low number of people with SCI
    4. Lack of Monetary Incentives
    5. Lack of cooperation between Labs
    6. Lack of Social Awareness
    7. Big Pharma

    I wonder how fast thing would go if Mark Zuckerberg would get SCI. Or some other billionaire. I think the best bet is to inspire Bill Gates to help us out.
    BSgimp got to the point with his post but he left out number 8, religion.

    8. Religion. Religion in the United States of America.

    A cure for spinal cord injury will come from the East and not the USA because of religion is pro-life and God. Medical research in the United States you cannot play God with killing cells, stem cells, DNA, etc. In the East they are atheist and they can play God and use cells, stem-cells and mess with DNA.

    Also in the United States we are 8 years behind compared to research done in the East, China. Former President George W. Bush was pro-life personally but pro-choice as a president. President George W. Bush wrote an executive order to stop research on stem cells meaning he was pro-life. Just look at the Terri Schiavo case when Florida's governor Jeb Bush had to step in. Even former President George W. Bush commented, "Life is better than Death." Meaning he was pro-life.

    When President Barrack Obama was sworn in to office his first day he wrote an executive order to allow stem cells to be used for research, with that said we are 8 years behind on finding a cure compared to the East.

    There is more about this thread I'd like to add but I am going to keep my peace.

    We will have a cure for spinal cord injuries/diseases in 8 years from the East.


    Ti
    "We must overcome difficulties rather than being overcome by difficulties."

  7. #77
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    I call B.S. on the whole Religion/GW Bush put us back thing. In every other country they are injecting people with everything from Fetal stem cells to rat cum, and nothing. We are still just as close in the USA to finding a cure. If we could go back eight years and know exactly what we know now i don't believe there would be a full cure. Now having said that I do believe we would be closer. We are finding more peaces to the puzzle all the time but to blame it on Religion is a little bit overboard. We just simply don't understand enough about the human body. But hey what do I know.

    I believe all the different trials and doctors are figuring out that puzzle Dr Young, Dr Silver, can't spell the rest so I'm not even going to try lol. Each one seems to have something the other one doesn't and we don't know why.

  8. #78
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    And major money. Bill Gates funds Alzheimer's research due to personal experience with a family member.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-he...-idUSKBN1DD0S3
    Make America Sane Again. lol

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by ctoom91 View Post
    .One last thing,we're not on the PC victims du jour list of Hollywood,academia,congress and the media. Billions spent every year on trivia and special interests,much of it wasted or redundant while the people trying to cure sci like Wise and Silver have to beg for funding,I don't see any change to the status quo anytime soon.
    So true!

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    The SCI Community has no one to blame but ourselves. We have not organized and demanded a cure. When is the last time we lobbied our representatives for increased funding? Researches are working their asses off while we as a collective do nothing.
    Also very true! With our current prime minister and overall government in Canada they have little time for curing SCI ( they would be more likely to side with the “I don’t need to be cured, that is insulting, I’m powerfully Differently abled blah blah crowd“), more focussed on reimbursing terrorist that go to Guant?namo Bay prison under American jurisdiction and are taken there by Americans yet Canadians pay them tens of millions! I think we’re on four now ( there was one who was a child when he went to Guant?namo he got 10 million, but recently I think three others recently released got a combined total of over $30 million, and right now there is another terrorist that went to Guant?namo that is suing the Canadian government for $50 million [ it seems to be becoming a trend now that they know it is possible and very lucrative]... what is sickening is when it comes to tort cases pain and suffering has a cap of - i believe 400,000-$500,000 doesn’t matter if you are a C1 quadriplegics or a brain injury because of poor roads, improper signs, etc).

    Also let’s not forget that the Harper government gave $30 million to the Rick Hanson Institute And Canada still has not seen a real chronic spinal cord injury clinical trial. I am very curious where that money went! Dr. Fehlings was going to work with stem cells Inc. to start a phase 2 trial here, but of course that was cancelled years ago because the results were dismal to say the least. I talked to one of the best neurosurgeons in the country Dr. Mohammed Shamji about how the stem cell Inc. trial was futile and that if they were interested in a clinical trial with neural stem cells to look into New World laboratories Autologous neural stem cells... in fact I was in contact with J?rgen Thorball of OXventure Technologies who was working with Dr. Jan Ahlfors in the Russian trial currently in a phase of investment. She actually took interest and they were going to get in contact and willing to see where that would go! But Dr. Shamji Went AWOL and then ended up murdering his wife chopping her up throwing her in a suitcase and hurling it off a bridge into the Humber river.. it was around this time that Fehlings made a public announcement that they would be cancelling the stem cell Inc. trial before it even started.
    Last edited by JamesMcM; 11-15-2017 at 02:58 AM.

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