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Thread: I-Glide battery charge, or Next, even Tailwind

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by maddog View Post
    It has been a long time since I looked at this but I think most of the wire connectors on the chair are blank, the positive and negative and I think that is all. The charger connector uses most if not all. The plug pins are labeled on the battery so it is easy to see what the chair needs and what the charger needs.
    Amazing, I never thought to look at the chair. My chair is only missing the thermister connection and it is *also* missing on the charger plug. Instead there is another connected to the ground wire, you've seen it. My charger only has the ground and two positives.

    I hope your chair configuration is not different than mine. I'll know soon enough, as soon as I get one of these lithiums up. I thought I had it once but that board blocked it or the pack was no good which seems doubtful.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  2. #22
    Success, thank you maddog. I don't know why it works, I don't care. This is the third device I've removed the printed circuit board from and had a great outcome. The first was a second smartdrive I picked up cheap, the second was a bathchair that the batteries had corroded the board and now this. I used the same battery box that came with the chair since those were the worst batteries. This time without the battery box printed circuit board the chair performs like they advertise. A soft push translates as a tiny roll, but a good push and the chair moves out. It definitely works better.

    My battery packs that I bought might not be satisfactory though. I made a trip around the block and a side trip up a hill and the voltage dropped 0.8 volts overall. That pack is a test pack though. I need to start over with one of the good ones. What I like is that it fits inside the black box so I could swap a fresh one in anytime.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  3. #23
    Senior Member maddog's Avatar
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    Glad you got it working.

  4. #24
    nonoise, maddog & Bob Sullivan,

    I see your hard work has paid off! I love this website. Everyone works together to help one another out!!

    By the way, I know some IGlide users who would pay you guys to convert their old batteries......just saying. Lol.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by yojama95 View Post
    nonoise, maddog & Bob Sullivan,

    I see your hard work has paid off! I love this website. Everyone works together to help one another out!!

    By the way, I know some IGlide users who would pay you guys to convert their old batteries......just saying. Lol.
    Maddog cracked the code. Since I had so many of these batteries apart, I discovered a refinement to what he found. I didn't have the guts to what he did without a backup controller. Maddog has been using his I-Glide for three years so clearly those connections are not needed. All one needs is the +/- 24 volt to the chair and nothing else. The thing that puzzles me is why did Independence/JJ add all those bogus connections? Is it so they could be the sole supplier of batteries?

    At any rate any good bicycle 24 V battery should work. It absolutely would need its own charger, bms and of course built in low voltage cutoff.

    As for how to do it, it's a no brainer. The big red wire and the black one. They are connected to pinouts 3 and 1. Tossing the printed circuit board is no loss. That "gas gauge" is poor. I had it report a full battery but it wouldn't get me around the block. That is because the gauge only compares the charge of what the battery accepted against what it can accept instead of should accept. Essentially I charged a dead battery, the charger said it was done and the battery pack reported it was a full charge, but the battery was too weak to go any distance. A two dollar volt meter is better. Later I was able to shock that battery pack into a little more life, but it was not as good as the original cell from I-Glide.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  6. #26
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Not understanding this: At any rate any good bicycle 24 V battery should work. It absolutely would need its own charger, bms and of course built in low voltage cutoff.

    BMS=battery management system(?) Isn't that what you deleted? Or do you mean a charger that is managed? Or what?
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    Not understanding this: At any rate any good bicycle 24 V battery should work. It absolutely would need its own charger, bms and of course built in low voltage cutoff.

    BMS=battery management system(?) Isn't that what you deleted? Or do you mean a charger that is managed? Or what?
    Sorry, communication is one of the many skills I cannot claim to have mastered. I will try to expand on what I meant to say.

    I-Glides use old style NiMH batteries. NiMH are better than NiCads, but still have significant issues. One is self destruction if not properly maintained. On the bright side they do not require balancing as they self balance between cells like lead acids do. So there is no Battery Management System (BMS). Inside the battery pack there is a Printed Circuit Board, (PCB) which does a couple of things, gas gauge, and thermister while charging, and the rest appears to be impressive show biz with no function.

    Since Maddog found out the I-Glide itself only needs the 24 volt + and - connections, we are not restricted to the PCP, *or* the dedicated I-Glide charger. In fact that is part of what I tried to say. Upgrading battery type, will require matching the correct charger to the new battery cell chemistry. It needs to come with a BMS.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  8. #28
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    It needs to come with a BMS

    What is "it", new battery or charger?
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  9. #29
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    THe BMS is a battery management system. It equalizes each cell cluster to maintain equalization of the voltage. AND it also is "supposed" to prevent battery damage by over-discharge either instantly or below the overall low discharge. It is supposed to do exactly what the name implies.

    There have been occurrences of unintended tripping which is supposed to prevent further use and damage to the battery system and trip failure at some inconvenient times and places. However, by all accounts progress is being made on such things. Is this true????? Who knows?

    Battery chargers are made that can tell you exactly how many Amp hours you replace when you charge them and assure the equalization of the cell clusters. Some guys swear by them and a few at them. There are more than a few who swear at the BMS' as well! Evidently it can be difficult to reset.

    I believe that more than 99% of us crips, want a plug and go charging system physically quiet and reasonably small sized. In other words convenient. Most of us are not Nuclear scientists, or electrical engineers, especially not me.

    Since almost any current LiFePO4 battery system of 24 Volt 40 AH or so rated promise will cost any of us about $1000 including shipping I am and have been very hesitant to jump into this caldron. Needless to say I am very much a financial conservative person. (said to be very stingy with my money) I would have more faith if I knew that everyone I dealt with was an American businessman, and I had our ICC laws to back me up, and also of American manufacture! They're not! All this stuff is Chinese. But that is just me and my prejudices!

    I do have considerably more faith in LiFePO4 battery systems, than LIPO systems, they burn and explode, and under your ass that can be uncomfortable at the very least.

    The AH ratings for lead/acid batteries is convoluted system at best. BUT LiFePO4 systems can get the actual real AH (Amp hour) they advertise the way we use electrical storage batteries in our chairs, and in fact all our handicapped-- DME ! The very fact some folks are using different kinds of LiFePO4 manufactures, is very encouraging, as well as differing charging systems. There should be more feedback on them coming.

    I use BatteryUniversity.com and wheelchairdriver.Com as a couple of my Battery reference sites. Wind Power, Wind Power and electric Powered cars should push new development in Battery use as well as a new surge towards silent, less expensive diesel electric powered submarines. The can install many times the stored electric power now, than the WW2 submarines, with extreme silent operations. Of course the same applies to torpedo drives. For these reasons we should see more efficient power storage batteries developed.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    It needs to come with a BMS

    What is "it", new battery or charger?
    Ya caught me. I thought I got all the ambiguous "it's" out of my response. I was thinking an upgraded lithium (many types of lithium) or NCM battery needs to have a BMS of it's own. But as Bob notes the balancing can be done with a specialized charger if one has the cash, time and knowledge.

    As for the low voltage cutoff, I think there is a switch in the controller in the chair. The reason is because when I study the wiring in the oldest battery boxes I see the main +/- wires directly going to the plug interface bypassing the PCB to pins 1 and 3. Thinner gauge wires supply the PCB.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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