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Thread: e motion m-11 battery rebuild

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bigtop1 View Post
    Nonoise,........A little mentoring if you will please. What is the significance of more or, less mAh? I note that Andy's battery space site offers the battery cell at 3000mAh as opposed to the lesser at HF. By the way, the pak that I opened from the emotion wheel indicated that is was the M 12 model batteries. I guess, this discovery makes my wheels a step above the M-11 model. This is another reference source I am using regarding some of the specs .......http://www.usatechguide.org/itemreview.php?itemid=434
    Essentially HF has a smaller less dense battery at 1500 mAh. You won't go as far as the battery indicated in the link you have above which is: Battery Pack Batteries 2 X 24 Volt, 2.4 Ah NiCd, I'm thinking each is 2.4 as that only makes sense.

    I'm still learning. This stuff should be simple, but it is not. Think 2.4 Ah as 2400 mAh, so HF is smaller. The pre tabbed 3000 mAh cells would be a modest increase. The problem with all of this replacement stuff is honesty. There was a thread on Endless where someone cut open some aftermarket cells to find them half full of filler.

    Wherever I confused you, just ask. It will help me to understand better if I'm forced to explain.
    Last edited by nonoise; 04-28-2017 at 05:50 PM.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustyjames View Post
    Sorry, but I can't see the point in rebuilding a battery and mixing the old cells with new ones.
    I misunderstood him, he meant how many total batteries he has to replace. I think mine had around 20 or 24 x 18650 -

    Good luck to all of you doing it on your own, let me know how it went
    C5/C6 Complete since 08/22/09

  3. #23
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Andy, this is a great find. Have you bought cells there? I looked all over for Nimh without much success a few months ago, but they have plenty, seems odd.
    Yeah, they seem like a good vendor. I had them whip up a Lithium Iron pack for my Maxabeam. Interesting thing was that the assembly was pretty much free of charge compared to just buying the parts. Ok, maybe $5.00, lol. Well soldered and assembled too.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ecommendations

    I've been thinking, if that pack is going to be rebuilt, why not upgrade to a much better battery technology in the process? I'm thinking NIMh is rather dark-age chemistry, an upgrade might be very desirable. Lithium Iron seems to be the ticket lately for power, longevity, and safety.

  4. #24
    Senior Member bigtop1's Avatar
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    Andy,............I am going to replace all of the batteries not just the weaker ones. As far as upgrading to a different chemistry of battery, I would be concerned about the charging capability from my existing charger. My biggest concern right now is in the soldered connections between each battery. I think I will use multi- strand wires instead of the flat tabs. I feel this will give me enough slack to arrange the batteries the way I need to. The tabs will limit me in being able to maneuver them. I will use copper wire getting as much of the juice to flow unimpeded. In all retrospect, the batteries end into wires that connect to the circuit board. Wish I knew how to post pictures of the project but, I am not too computer savvy.
    I refuse to tip toe through life, only to arrive safely at death.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was wondering how those wheels got charged and if there was some sort of custom charger for them. If there is a generic charge connection used, obtaining a common Bantam clone charger of some sort and a 12dc power supply to power that will take care of charging any sort of battery chemistry. But that turns into an ever expanding snowball, eh? lol

    Yeah, pictures of how that looks would be cool. If you go to the 'go advanced' tab when posting and then go to the upload attachments section with a suitably small sized picture will get you there. But if not, no biggie. One word about soldering directly to the cells, it can be a pain with the heatsink effect, and the possibility of damage from the excess heat. That's why they spotweld tabs on the cells for soldering to. I think that batteryspace website offers tab installation for like .50 a cell.

  6. #26
    Senior Member robotnik's Avatar
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    I also tried to rebuilt my M-12 batteries when I was using E-Motion.
    The first time, we (with my father "the mechanic guy") took an old and unworking battery. We opened it and there was obviously one cell leaking. I ordered a new one, if my memory is still fine it was a 1200mAh, 2.4V NiCd. My father soldered it in place of the old cell and YES ! it worked perfectly well and all the battery started her new life. Cost: less than 3.50$.
    The 2nd -and last !- time, we tried to do better. The goal was to increase battery life and thus the range of the E-Motions… I bought 12 cells this time -for a try on one batt- but 6000mAh if I remember well. It costed me 80$, still affordable if the goal was reached. Again, battery opened, all the cells removed… A bit more tricky, we had to make a map of the wiring before desoldering the cells, and this time we had to take care of the motherboard. But everything went fine, and when we finally plugged the assembled battery on the charger it started to blink and charge "as usual", we thinked. Badass !
    So I bought 12 more cells … opened another battery … so on … re-assembled battery with new cells, put it on charge… Curiously the charge was extremely slow, it took more than 2 full days to see all the green leds. But it was time to try !
    Did it work ? difficult to say "yes". Or, "yes,… but one time only". I think the first time I tried these batts, they did the job ! But I can't be more accurate, it had snowed the day before, the road was full of soapy snow and I was all the time in speed 2 -the more powerful. Very difficult and unusual conditions. But I think I've been able to do much more with these batts than with normal ones.
    The problem ? they NEVER did fully charge another time. Even after 2 days of charge, with all the leds green, the battery life had NEVER exceed 15 minutes after that.
    I changed the motherboards with others a friend gave me. Unfortunately some components were dead, we had to change them but without a lot of sureness on their fonction. It didn't change anything.
    Now all this sh** is on my backyards (it was 4 years ago) and I've bought a ZX-1.
    Last edited by robotnik; 04-29-2017 at 02:56 PM.
    C6-7 since mid 2002, no hand control nor triceps.
    my website & my job (in France): Accessibility advisor www.acceslibre.eu
    Also working on a French research about Peer counseling and Empowerment.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by robotnik View Post
    ...
    The problem ? they NEVER did fully charge another time. Even after 2 days of charge, with all the leds green, the battery life had NEVER exceed 15 minutes after that.
    It sounds like you got some faulty cells in the complete rebuild purchase project. There is one set of cells wired in series if your memory is correct. 2.4V X 12 cells is the only combination that comes close to 24V. So only one weak cell that won't charge properly would wreck the chain as you discovered with the leaky one originally.
    Last edited by nonoise; 04-29-2017 at 06:53 PM. Reason: wrong word
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  8. #28
    Senior Member robotnik's Avatar
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    mmmhh… I can understand that, Nonoise, … but we removed the batteries many times trying to understand what was wrong, and all the cells were fine. Testing the circuit showed us it was continuous… And these two batteries WERE WORKING obviously !!
    I'm more suspecting a switch or something like this, somewhere in the motherboard. Maybe it's here to save the components (and yes, maybe in this case, trying to swap 1200mAh cells by 6000 was a bit "too much", and then it can be a charging problem) but maybe Alber, as all his friends working in the extremely money-maker handicap business, doesn't want his batteries "re-buildable". I don't know if it's possible, but it make sense. A brand new battery is sold here 260$, and rebuilding it may cost 45$ in components…
    I 've been very frustrated to be unable to reach my goal. I'm not skillful enough in electricity, and we were alone with our problems and no-one to help us (I wasn't on CCC at this time), it was a big challenge.
    C6-7 since mid 2002, no hand control nor triceps.
    my website & my job (in France): Accessibility advisor www.acceslibre.eu
    Also working on a French research about Peer counseling and Empowerment.

  9. #29
    Senior Member bigtop1's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk3vrKc4Y1w#t=5.31475

    In gleaning all the information I can in preparation for the battery swap, I found this on you tube. Any comments?
    I refuse to tip toe through life, only to arrive safely at death.

  10. #30
    I swapped my off road wheelchair to LiFeP04 batteries and got better range and the drive seems "smoother" There is a useful website on different types of battery and charging http://batteryuniversity.com. Mine needed a lead from each cell for the charger to monitor individual cells. Luckily we have a charity in the UK called Remap who help do stuff like this I'd never of managed myself even if I had hands.

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