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Thread: Permobil F3/M3

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    Which is more maneuverable, M3 versus F3 really depends on the footplates one needs to be positioned without frogging. If you can tolerate narrow footplates, the M series will be more maneuverable in tight areas. If you need the wider footplates, caster interference issues will require the legrests to be elevated 20-30 degrees for normal driving. The M3 also seems a little faster than advertised--I'm tending to see ~6.3 MPH.
    For me the footplate doesn't make a difference because I got a F3 with a wider footplate and due to not having front castors I can get to things more easy and the castors do not get in the way.

    Closer to doors, sink, refrigerator, oven, bathroom etc.

    I know for me it took 90 days to get comfortable with front wheel drive but one I did it totally out maneuvers my m300 or my Pride edge 1.0.

    Again personal experience coming from mid wheels with 15 years experience.

    Last mid wheels still have a tendency to get stuck in challenging places with elevation, gravel, dirt rock or wet grass or steep short inclines. Never an issue with front wheel F3/F5

  2. #12
    With respect to maneuverability in close quarters, I stand by my post.

    If the wheelbase is shorter and approximately half the chair is on either side of the axis of rotation, it will turn in a tighter space. One real world example is the aisles between the wire racks in the storage room at work. I can turn an M3 around in the aisle while an F3 turned sideways exceeds the width of the aisle.

    One has to be careful about about making generalizations. It all depends on the specific model and configuration.
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  3. #13
    Case in point. There are significant differences the footprints of the M3 and the M5. The differences between the M3 and M5 are much greater than the differences between an F3 and F5. There are definitely trade offs that should be carefully weighed
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    Let's examine what I said which was "inaccurate"... because I'm seriously bored enough to play the game "mess with jerk troll"...




    Your F3 goes 6 mph. This one is 5. I posted nothing about your F3. So no I was not incorrect and you are being a jerk.




    A non jerk would have replied in a thoughtfull manner instead of egotistism, beligerance, arrogance and jerkdom.

    I'm starting to remember why I don't post here. My bad. Heading back to jerk free zones.

    BIRDMAN;

    Now I will say I do not always agree with Roll Positive, but he is a long time chair user. I see his opinions on a couple of sites. However, your chair can likely be programmed to move/ travel at 6 MPH.

    You seem to place a lot of faith in your DME supplier. I don't know him/her. But as a general rule I think of them as sales people, not knowledgeable mechanics, but parts changers and sales people. Further sales people will say whatever suits their purpose, actual; knowledge and truth has little or nothing to do with their spoken words. Now be aware that some (damned few) of these people know of what they speak. There are a larger smattering who actually know a bit but are often blinded by their sales commissions, not the service they can provide.

    I have no real interest in the models you have written about but in my opinion you have been very rude to Roll Positive. HE gave you his opinion and perhaps some actual experience with one of the models. Fact; SPEED of most chairs can be set with a controller programmer. The motors are simple DC permanent magnet motors the amount of volts permitted by the controller regulates to get to the motor. The amperage actually creates the drive power developed by them. If you had an electronic controller that "Could" allow more than 24 volts to access these motors they could gain far more RPM's. They are just DC motors (variable speed according to voltage) I do hope I haven't bored you or confused you.

    Calling a person a jerk is rude. You had a difference of "OPINION" with him and he with you. Most of us are pretty definite in our opinions. Especially when it comes to our chairs, since we spend most in not all of the waking moments of our lives in one. In my home I use a now ancient Invacare X without any front riggings, to make my home more accessible. There well be another kind of chair which would be better for my use. However, MOST dealerships, and their vultures make reasonable shopping for me impossible. I supply my own financing, NOT Government or private Insurance financing. SO I do not have the resources to be an expert, and from my limited experience the sales force of the Manufacturers are not honest (In MY Opinion) Nor are most "SALESPEOPLE" their prime interest is sales and money. Not their false sympathies.

    Roll Positive can often come across as stern, but when he had an opposing opinion, and experience, you could not accept that. Give it a rest! Few if any of us are absolute experts on all sorts of Powered wheelchairs. Just read and learn what others opinions are.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sullivan View Post
    BIRDMAN;

    Now I will say I do not always agree with Roll Positive, but he is a long time chair user. I see his opinions on a couple of sites. However, your chair can likely be programmed to move/ travel at 6 MPH.

    You seem to place a lot of faith in your DME supplier. I don't know him/her. But as a general rule I think of them as sales people, not knowledgeable mechanics, but parts changers and sales people. Further sales people will say whatever suits their purpose, actual; knowledge and truth has little or nothing to do with their spoken words. Now be aware that some (damned few) of these people know of what they speak. There are a larger smattering who actually know a bit but are often blinded by their sales commissions, not the service they can provide.

    I have no real interest in the models you have written about but in my opinion you have been very rude to Roll Positive. HE gave you his opinion and perhaps some actual experience with one of the models. Fact; SPEED of most chairs can be set with a controller programmer. The motors are simple DC permanent magnet motors the amount of volts permitted by the controller regulates to get to the motor. The amperage actually creates the drive power developed by them. If you had an electronic controller that "Could" allow more than 24 volts to access these motors they could gain far more RPM's. They are just DC motors (variable speed according to voltage) I do hope I haven't bored you or confused you.

    Calling a person a jerk is rude. You had a difference of "OPINION" with him and he with you. Most of us are pretty definite in our opinions. Especially when it comes to our chairs, since we spend most in not all of the waking moments of our lives in one. In my home I use a now ancient Invacare X without any front riggings, to make my home more accessible. There well be another kind of chair which would be better for my use. However, MOST dealerships, and their vultures make reasonable shopping for me impossible. I supply my own financing, NOT Government or private Insurance financing. SO I do not have the resources to be an expert, and from my limited experience the sales force of the Manufacturers are not honest (In MY Opinion) Nor are most "SALESPEOPLE" their prime interest is sales and money. Not their false sympathies.

    Roll Positive can often come across as stern, but when he had an opposing opinion, and experience, you could not accept that. Give it a rest! Few if any of us are absolute experts on all sorts of Powered wheelchairs. Just read and learn what others opinions are.


    Thank you Bob for the kind words....not trying to come off as anything other then just an experienced user...many times we talk to people that get bad advice from manufactures, DME ATM or just other users that really dont understand what there chair can do or is capable of doing.


    When you read Birdmans 1st post you can tell being a user of an F series that his issues are from not understanding how front wheel drive works to his advantage or the chair is not programmed for his skill set and or maximum performance.

    The fact that the chair comes standard at 6mph tells me he as a temporary user didnt understand the DME should have reprogrammed it to 6 and then the user can slow it down at the joystick to match his talent.

    If mid wheel is a preference then by all means go for it!

    Having come from 5 years in an Pride Edge and 2 years in a m300 the F3 will out preform in every measurement from maneuverability in tight areas, not get stuck in short steep inclines, not get stuck in wet grass, mud or deep gravel.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RollPositive View Post
    Having come from 5 years in an Pride Edge and 2 years in a m300 the F3 will out preform in every measurement from maneuverability in tight areas, not get stuck in short steep inclines, not get stuck in wet grass, mud or deep gravel.
    The M300 and Q6 Edge are different than the M3, so they should not be part of this comparison. If one can fit on narrow footplates, the M3 will have a tighter turning radius than an identically spec'd F3. The chairs in this pic are close to scale. I should note that the seat depth of the M3 is 2" shorter (18 -vs- 20"). Even if we increased the seat depth by 2", the M3 would still have the tighter turning radius.
    Attached Images Attached Images  


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