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Thread: Spasms and Suboxen

  1. #1

    Spasms and Suboxen

    I'm throwing this out for some feedback. First of all it appears that I'm the only one taking Suboxen. If I'm wrong, please let me know. I'd like to communicate with anyone else that is using or has used Suboxen.

    Next, here's where I'm really interested in feedback. Presently, I will have severe spasms in my abdomen and legs in the morning. The spasms in the morning are predominantly in my abdomen. Later in the evening, just a light touch on one of my legs will trigger spasms. The spasms are strong enough to throw be back in my chair. Now here is where it gets interesting. Around noon I will take 0.5 mg, yes, 0.5 mg of Suboxen. Within about 45 minutes my spasms will stop and I will be spasm free for about 7 to 8 hours. My theory is the spasms are an indication that I have some sort of injury or pain below my level of feeling. The pain is not severe enough to cause AD, but enough to trigger spasms. I believe that little amount of Suboxen is enough of a painkiller to trick my body into believing I no longer have an injury or a pain. At one point I had increased my Baclofen from 80 mg/day to 100 mg/day, but my spasms remained about the same. I'm also taking 200 mg/day of Lyrica as well as 60 mg/day of Cymbalta. I have also taken 1000 mg of Tylenol at night and saw no change in the amount or intensity of my spasms. The same is true if I take 400 mg of Advil.

    Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated. I'd like to eliminate the Suboxen altogether, but not until I can figure out the source of my spasms.

    Thanks.
    DaDutchman
    C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

  2. #2
    I completely understand what you're going through my legs and abdomen do the same exact things for the same reasons. My situation is my hamstrings pull my calves in my heels down and against whatever they're on. This action then causes pressure sores on my heels and my calves.And they do it for the same exact reasons you stated. If I get constipated or a pressure sore looks irritated sometimes the day before a bowel program, or my super pubic catheter needs to be changed. I've already had both heels operated on because of pressure sores from my spasticity. Oh and if you touch my legs to or the wind hits them just right they go crazy. When I'm in my chair I pad my feet with lots of phone. When I'm in bed I wear phone boots, and some braces that lock my knees so they won't bend. After my 11th year of being an SCI my abdomen and back don't fight as hard as they used to. My back rest on my chair that I received a year ago is the same backrest that I had on my last chair from five years its aluminum with lots of padding on it. It's the only one I haven't broken yet. As far as medication goes I'm on 60 mg of baclofen 1800 mg of gabapentin 30 mg of oxy and 20 mg of hydrocodone that's what I take in a 24-hour period I do take venalafalaxine bad spelling but i dont remember the dose sorry. I just switched from Zoloft to the vena because I was on Zoloft for a couple years and it didn't seem to work anymore. Before the Zoloft I was on baclofen for five years then it didn't seem to work.
    That Suboxon that you've mentioned does that work for your spasticity or is that just for pain please let me know I would love to not have to wear my knee braces at night.

  3. #3
    Thankfully I haven't had any issues with pressure sores on my feet or legs. Sometimes I wonder if it's a vicious circle. Somehow you get a pressure sore on your and because of that you have increased spasms. As a result of the increased spasms you get more pressure sores and the cycle repeats.

    The Suboxen appears to ease or eliminate my spasms for about 8 hours. Again, is the Suboxen telling my body I no longer have a pain therefore there's no need to spasm? In order for you to try the Suboxen you'll need to go through a detox program and get off the oxy and the hydrocodone. It is extremely risky to use Suboxen with any opium based painkiller. I went through a "quick" detox in the hospital in Dec. of 2014. While in the hospital they took me off the 10 mg of Valium I was using every night and the 10 mg of hydrocodone I would use a couple times each week. I started out at 16 mg a day of the Suboxen and am down to 0.5 mg a day. I'm looking to get off it completely, but until I have a better understanding of the relationship between my spasms and the Suboxen, I guess I'll stay with the Suboxen. I'm concerned that with how strong these spasms have become that I'll break a bone or two.
    DaDutchman
    C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

  4. #4
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    Cymbalta made my spasms much worse. I'm not sure why suboxen eliminates your spasms but if wager it has more to do with CNS suppression than pain removal. Were it a pain thing then opioids would have had a similar effect.

  5. #5
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    This is an interesting read about suboxen weaning. Apparently all opioids and suboxen have the effect of reducing norepinephrine. Cymbalta increases norepinephrine. It's possible that the suboxen is reducing your norepinephrine levels enough to reduce your spasms which would explain why the cymbalta increases mine.

    Far from scientist but at least a theory.

    http://www.pbod.org/detoxing-suboxon...ack-knowledge/

  6. #6
    Mize,

    Thank you very much for the link on detoxing off of Suboxen. I've ran out of time to read the whole article, but what I've read so far is fascinating and concerning. I've read where the half-life is 16 hours and for it to completely exit the body using only 0.5 mg takes over 100 hours. Consequently, even though I'm only taking 0.5 mg a day I probably have a significantly higher amount in my blood system. I did read where the doctor/author of the article would keep a patient detoxing down to 1 mg a day would be at this level for 3 years. I'm hoping that doesn't mean I have to take this 0.5 mg dosage for 4 or more years. I'll let you know my thoughts once I read the entire article. This may also explain why it appears so far that I'm the only one on it. Thanks again.
    DaDutchman
    C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

  7. #7
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    No problem. Also today was my first day at half my cymbalta and my spasms were much better. I think it must be a norepinephrine issue. It'll take a few weeks to get off cymbalta completely. I hope the suboxen goes easy for you.

  8. #8
    Mize,

    After reading the article you provided the link for I'm now concerned about the combination of meds that I'm on and their overall effects. I was put on the Suboxen in order to get of the opium based painkillers. Well, the Suboxen doesn't relieve any of the pain that the opiods did. Therefore, I see no real need to be on it. My concern though has to do with what I mentioned above. I'm also leery as to how effective the Cymbalta is too. This was prescribed for depression initially and then I've been taking it to help with neuropathic pain. I'd like to get off this too, but I've heard it is quite hard. How much Cymbalta do you take?

    I hope you do well getting off the Cymbalta. Please let me know how it goes. Thanks for the support with respect to the Suboxen.
    DaDutchman
    C5/C6 since 2007 due to car accident

  9. #9
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    My cymbalta dose wasn't very high at 20 mg, 2x/day and I'm now at 1x/day with no side effects other than reduced spasticity. The only opioid I take is an occasional tramadol which is one of the least addictive ones. I was on fentanyl for the first five weeks after my injury but none since.

    The cymbalta definitely helped me emotionally and somewhat with neuromuscular pain at first. After a few weeks, however, the hip flexor spasms were destroying my lower back with pain. At this point I'm blaming the norepinephrine based on your observation about suboxen and that link. It's likely I already have elevated norepinephrine because stress and anxiety increase it and I've had lots of that lately.

    Maybe you could used tramadol to wean off the suboxen and get some pain relief at the same time. People who have trouble weaning off cymbalta often go on an SSRI like prozac (long half life).

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