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Thread: The right to die--ethical dilemmas in persons with spinal cord injury. SCI Nurse?

  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by mrb View Post
    Administer themselves is easy enough, suck it up or push a button to start IV. Button can be a bite switch so almost everyone can do it. I'm not a great believer in a cure, can't even get my lungs paced, I'd wait forever even if a cure did come, quite happy to exit now, I've had a good life, don't want to endure this shit for years ending it.
    Yes but you would need to have the IV set upfor that purpose! A lower injury can just pull himself over a balcony, , load a gun, set up their exhaust in their car etc. they don't have to wait and have the hospital/ Doctor set it up for them. And if assisted suicide is illegal they will never set that up for anyone to administer themselves a lethal dose

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMcM View Post
    Yes but you would need to have the IV set upfor that purpose! A lower injury can just pull himself over a balcony, , load a gun, set up their exhaust in their car etc. they don't have to wait and have the hospital/ Doctor set it up for them. And if assisted suicide is illegal they will never set that up for anyone to administer themselves a lethal dose
    Tell me about it, I know where and how to get hold of Sodium Nembutal (please don't ask, download Tor browser or visit Exit website) what I can't do is open the package and take it. To do that I need someones help and they would then be prosecuted for assisting suicide. However if that same person helped me get to Dignitas in Switzerland and that the decision to go was mine our Director of Public Prosecutions has issued guidelines that, if complied with, shouldn't result in a criminal offence being committed. This is still a concern for me and my wife as I don't want to risk that she could be prosecuted,I'd need cast iron guarantees which can't be given. We'd also need another persons help to care for me on the journey. UK law is a mess with people like me stuck in limbo, a life we have to live despite not wanting to do so.

  3. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by mrb View Post
    Tell me about it, I know where and how to get hold of Sodium Nembutal (please don't ask, download Tor browser or visit Exit website) what I can't do is open the package and take it. To do that I need someones help and they would then be prosecuted for assisting suicide. However if that same person helped me get to Dignitas in Switzerland and that the decision to go was mine our Director of Public Prosecutions has issued guidelines that, if complied with, shouldn't result in a criminal offence being committed. This is still a concern for me and my wife as I don't want to risk that she could be prosecuted,I'd need cast iron guarantees which can't be given. We'd also need another persons help to care for me on the journey. UK law is a mess with people like me stuck in limbo, a life we have to live despite not wanting to do so.
    I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's probably important you know Digitnas requires that you are able to drink that concoction yourself! they provide the Doctor Who provides the prescription and they give you the glass, but you have to drink it yourself so you need at least some arm function

  4. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMcM View Post
    I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's probably important you know Digitnas requires that you are able to drink that concoction yourself! they provide the Doctor Who provides the prescription and they give you the glass, but you have to drink it yourself so you need at least some arm function
    All I need is a straw and they will provide that, there are numerous examples of quads with no arm function exiting there. I don't know where you got the BS info from but it is easy to find on Dignitas website and covers many circumstances inc peg fed, unable to swallow and for vented quads like me a remote switch to stop the vent:

    If the member can swallow unaided, the dissolved medication will be taken as a drink in approximately 50 ml of water.If a stomach tube is in place through the nose or in the form of a PEG tube (percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy) through the abdomen, or if the member has a pre-existing intravenous drip, and if the member, unaided, is able to press the plunger of a syringe (without a needle) filled with the medication and attached to that tube or drip, then the medication will be administered this way.If the member has a stomach tube or intravenous drip but is not able, unaided, to use a syringe to administer the medication then DIGNITAS can provide an easy-to-handle remote control which they can activate with a small movement (e.g. a finger, toe or jaw) to start the attached pump.If an artificial breathing device is being used to enforce respiration, the member must also activate the so-called ?power terminator? which will independently interrupt the power supply some time after they take the medication and shut down the artificial breathing device.If the medication is to be taken through the stomach, the member must first take up to 70 drops of Paspertin (active ingredient: metoclopramide) as an anti-emetic to prevent (as far as possible) them vomiting the unpleasant-tasting NaP. (If an intolerance for metoclopramide exists, there are other medications available.) In this context, it is also necessary to warn the member that the medication has an unpleasant taste but, immediately after they take it, they can have a sweetened drink or chocolate to neutralise the unpleasant taste.If it is decided that the member will take the medication by activating a piece of auxiliary equipment (such as a remote controlled pump) or if a power terminator is required, this process will also be covered in detail during the conversation.

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by mrb View Post
    All I need is a straw and they will provide that, there are numerous examples of quads with no arm function exiting there. I don't know where you got the BS info from but it is easy to find on Dignitas website and covers many circumstances inc peg fed, unable to swallow and for vented quads like me a remote switch to stop the vent:

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    oh my apologies. that's great to hear, because when I contacted them with specific questions on this topic I was very disappointed to hear they required some arm function as I know many people don't have that luxury ! Again sorry about that, I must've misunderstood them or they misunderstood my question. still I'm happy to be corrected,that relieves a lot of anxiety about the cyst on my cord continuing to grow taking my barely remaining but vital arm function.

    It's amazing to be concerned about a bad taste in your mouth, when ending one's life

  6. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMcM View Post
    oh my apologies. that's great to hear, because when I contacted them with specific questions on this topic I was very disappointed to hear they required some arm function as I know many people don't have that luxury ! Again sorry about that, I must've misunderstood them or they misunderstood my question. still I'm happy to be corrected,that relieves a lot of anxiety about the cyst on my cord continuing to grow taking my barely remaining but vital arm function.

    It's amazing to be concerned about a bad taste in your mouth, when ending one's life
    No problem I didn't get that feedback when I contacted them, didn't ask the question directly but did explain I was SCI C3 paralysed neck down. You do know that there is an alternative clinic Eternal Spirit/LifeCircles also in Switzerland that offer a similar service?, their website isn't as informative as Dignitas and they seem to have slightly relaxed conditions.

    Yeah, worrying about how your final drink tastes is weird I'm more bothered about what music I'll exit to I pretty much know it'll be at one or the other, kept thinking I'd just not treat a chest infection but after struggling with low sats and needing oxygen the last few weeks I realise suffocating and choking to death isn't going to be painless nor much fun for my family and care team. Funny how I now consider others when I used to be so selfish, which I have no doubt those who oppose AS think I am being.

  7. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by mrb View Post
    No problem I didn't get that feedback when I contacted them, didn't ask the question directly but did explain I was SCI C3 paralysed neck down. You do know that there is an alternative clinic Eternal Spirit/LifeCircles also in Switzerland that offer a similar service?, their website isn't as informative as Dignitas and they seem to have slightly relaxed conditions.

    Yeah, worrying about how your final drink tastes is weird I'm more bothered about what music I'll exit to I pretty much know it'll be at one or the other, kept thinking I'd just not treat a chest infection but after struggling with low sats and needing oxygen the last few weeks I realise suffocating and choking to death isn't going to be painless nor much fun for my family and care team. Funny how I now consider others when I used to be so selfish, which I have no doubt those who oppose AS think I am being.
    Only reason I didn't drown myself in my back pond was 10-20 % fear of that filthy place 80 to 90% having my family see it. I feel that our families will understand, most of them wouldn't want to live like this, and knowing that a dependent very limited lifestyle wasn't for you is much better than just randomly finding you dead without knowing why exactly. Infections, starvation, pneumonia not only painful, ugly I'm extremely undignified very very drawn out sometimes it's not even quite enough to push you that last little bit! Assistance is usually given at that point. It's just a simple pain meds or sleeping pill

  8. #118
    I've already discussed this with my wife, she knows how I feel and I understand how she feels. Watching me slowly suffocate isn't something she wants to watch! I've also discussed it with my GP and District Nurse team and have meds to reduce pain and help sedate me at home as my breathing gets worse. Done as much as I can to be able to withdraw medical intervention and still have trouble thinking about the impact on my family. I have a similar problem if I choose to go to Dignitas, flying would be difficult with all of the things I need for a 4/5 day trip for the 2 consultations so we would drive, we'd need to find someone to act as second carer and to help my wife on the return journey. This part really troubles me as I can't imagine how she would be after watching me die and returning home with an urn full of ashes and then a 1000 mile drive home. Nothing about all of this remotely suggests it's the easy way out....

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