View Poll Results: Should a C5-C6 injury (even complete)be able to self catheterize, transfer, Drive..

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes as long as they work hard enough, they should be able to do these tasks at that level

    1 4.00%
  • No every injury is different, even at the same level

    21 84.00%
  • A C-5 C6 even complete should be able to drive and Cath themselves

    2 8.00%
  • Most incompletes should be able to with rehab

    1 4.00%
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Thread: A question for the community

  1. #11
    I selected No every injury is different, even at the same level but I think that for a complete C5 to cath all by himself is kind of a mission impossible, at least in my case. And I also think incompletes should be able to do it in most cases especially Asia C.

  2. #12
    I'm a C6 and until this past June I didn't think I could do IC by myself either. In June I went to Craig to see a urologist for a checkup. I had switched from a SP to condom caths about 5 years ago so I was just having things looked at after having recurring UTIs over the past year. While there one of their nurses suggested I IC once or twice daily to be sure my bladder would be emptied completely at least once a day. I told her I wouldn't be able to since I live alone, would have to do it myself, have no use of my fingers and didn't want to risk contamination. She encouraged me to try the touchless closed system type and gave me some samples, including these Hollister VaPro -https://www.hollisterpeoplefirst.com/Watch?f=PR922225 although I got the full size like this http://secure.hmepowerweb.com/Resour...e41a82efa5.jpg

    I never heard of the touchless kind and was really surprised at how easy they are to use. These may be an option for other C6, C5s - they're at least worth trying. Unfortunately my insurance won't pay for them, but now I knew I could do it so I use standard ICs twice daily and just clean and reuse them.
    Last edited by tumbleweeds; 12-16-2015 at 10:27 PM. Reason: added link


  3. #13
    Senior Member
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    I'm C5 complete. When I'm up in my chair IC is easy. I wash my own catheters as well. It all just takes practice.

    I allowed my hands to contract into fists. I can grab and manipulate what I need.

    I use a bag at night so I can get some sleep.

    Everyone is different. It's all trial and error. Just giving it a mention to give ideas.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lynnifer's Avatar
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    My friend couldn't get in/out of bed with a transfer board for her first ten years either ... she relied on a hoyer lift.
    Roses are red. Tacos are enjoyable. Don't blame immigrants, because you're unemployable.

    T-11 Flaccid Paraplegic due to TM July 1985 @ age 12

  5. #15
    There's this video on YouTube of a man claiming he's C5 complete
    http://youtu.be/2CN6p3nTvaw

  6. #16
    He has got it down pat. He got a lot done in 20 minutes. Most of the high quads I know do their bp on pads in bed for various reasons. It must be noted that this quad showed no hint of a spasm. That can present a major obstacle. However I find that after I get into all the gymnastics involved my spasms quiet.
    You will find a guide to preserving shoulder function @
    http://www.rstce.pitt.edu/RSTCE_Reso...imb_Injury.pdf

    See my personal webpage @
    http://cccforum55.freehostia.com/

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SCIfor55yrs. View Post
    I have not made a poll selection. Functionality depends on a lot more than injury level and I did not approach my peak until 15-20 years after my injury. For instance when I was in rehab there were two C5,6 quads who had been jockeys. They probably did not weigh more than 80 lbs. and had been real athletes. I am a 6'1" C7 quad and they could whip my ass at just about anything. Transferring, rolling, etc. were so much easier for them because they did not have the weight to contend with. I could run circles around mid-level paras who were obese. So body type can have a significant impact on functionality. The reason it took me that long to peak is because learning body mechanics and applying laws of physics like leverage can be used to compensate for limited strength. It takes time to learn these things. Also, once I fully understood what my muscles could and could not do I was able to develop aids that helped to extend their capability. It also takes patience and practice, practice, and that takes time. It also took about 15 years for my body to adjust to the point that I had plenty of energy or stamina and in sum, to feel good again. On top of that it took at least 10 years for me to get my head together so I could take advantage of everything I had going for me. I understand your impatience, but in my experience there are some things that take time. The really frustrating thing is not knowing what the future holds.
    Agreed body mechanics makes a world of difference. Another thing people disregard is subtle functional differences. For example some C5s they have good shoulder function, good bicep function, forearm function and wrist extension in both arms, where is another may only have one good arm One, one Bad arm.like I said I have this problem with my right shoulder and forearm do not possess the same function my left does ( my left is standard C-5 complete arm function) but it's as if my right side took more damage and loss more function, this affects everything I try to do. After many years of trying, intense daily physiotherapy, rehab, alternative therapies acupuncture, electro stim, FES I know that this is sadly not going to functionally improve, or even provide pain relief that the further paralysis in my shoulder causes no amount of practice is going to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthQuad View Post
    I'm assuming your level of injury is C5-6 complete? What month and year were you injured?

    From the very beginning I listened to what others had to say about what they thought was best for me. And then I tossed 95% of their opinion in the trash where it belongs.

    Do whatever you think is best for you. If I listened to other people, I'd probably be dead by now. You can do this, you can do that. You won't be able to do this, you won't be able to do that. Coming from people that often prove themselves to be full of bs.

    I'll wait to see your injury date before I comment further.
    Be 3 1/2 years this month

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio GS View Post
    There's this video on YouTube of a man claiming he's C5 complete
    http://youtu.be/2CN6p3nTvaw
    I studIed That video intensively,that Man is and anomaly plain simple you won't see this very often unfortunately and he is obviously very incomplete. First off he has slight gripwith full use of his forearms as in supination and pronation as well as extension obviously no flexion. Now from what I read This is common in C5 injuries more so in incomplete injuries though. He also has no spascisity Which is critical for all this stuff mind you he could simply just be flaccid paralysis. But the two main indications are first He clearly has At least some sensory function of the hands and arms, this is how he manages to utilize the wrist extension grip without looking for example the lube behind his head Also he must have at least partial sensation of the anus.how could someone insert a tiny suppository in their anus ( small target ) with no sensation down there using a device with no sensory function in the hands or arms. Talk about trying to hit a bull's-eye with a broken bow and arrow in the back of a moving truck while blindfolded haha. How do you even know where it is, if you're close let alone if the thing was in... Secondly at many points in the video You can evidently see that he has core stability, And even slight activation that you can notice if you look carefully, I see these kind of movements or differences in incompletes my friend I went through rehab with moves the same way we have the same injury but he is incomplete.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOGsQLaPFgg

    This is another great transfer video, one I've tried to learn from. His core stability and core activation is evident.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lynnifer View Post
    Asked my friend today who is C5-6. She's completely paralyzed from the chest down but gets spasms, especially on the left leg. She can't dress herself completely ... is able to operate her suprapubic (after 25yrs she had to have a new one placed and wears a bag now). Drive with a ramp and hand-controlled van (she took me to an appointment today!). Get in or out of bed via a transfer board as long as someone is there to place and remove the board. Her fingers are atrophied closed, but she had a tendon transfer to acquire a pinch which changed her life for the better (fore-finger and thumb). She was able to hand me a drink today from the drive-thru window and I was behind her so she is able to grasp that flimsy drink hard enough not to drop it.

    Canada gives you enough to send you home. The US seems to want to maximize your potential. I had looked into going stateside years ago for a non-healing wound. You'll need to acquire a form from your local MPP. I'm told the entire process takes about 8 weeks to go through OHIP (Ontario insurance) for approval. If you feel, James, that you have more potential ... maybe follow this up? Getting a decision from OHIP doesn't mean you have to go and it doesn't hurt to try. The tough part will be convincing the powers that be, that you're not getting what you need from Toronto.
    Sadly American rehab is not going to improve my potential, I reached it myself outside of rehab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio GS View Post
    I selected No every injury is different, even at the same level but I think that for a complete C5 to cath all by himself is kind of a mission impossible, at least in my case. And I also think incompletes should be able to do it in most cases especially Asia C.
    Honestly cathing oneself is probably the most realistic of everything I've stated if we generalize C-5 injuries, with which is never realistic for any SCI but especially for this pivotal vertebrae. I'll try break this down, from my perspective as a truly complete C5 no motor or sensory function below injury. A "healthy" C5 left arm and a lesser so right arm ed and incredible amount of spasticity.

    -Cathing: I forget the terminology but the grip we utilize that naturally occurs by triggering wrist extension, it's like a weak pinch. This grip varies in strength and functionality substantially between injuries after a certain point it can't really be improved but one thing that is dead certain forearm pronation is absolutely vital I know this from first-hand experience. If you cannot activate the muscles necessary to pronate The forearm this grip is rendered almost useless asyou can't even maintain the positioning to actually grab something because once you activate your wrist extension Hand and arm will naturally Supinate unfortunately. BUT catheterizeIng is probably one of the few things you can get away with this problem if we only look at the actual procedure of cathing. You could utilize your one probation able to stabilize the penis with the other even in supinated position get the thumb around the tube you can still push it in, it's substantially more difficult then if you could probate both arms, especially since your shoulder function is affected as well but can be done. The thing is getting all the little pieces opening the packages is where the real challenge comes without two arms able to use the grip. Where I got stuff was the fact that I have to keep this stuff subway basically a backpack on the back of my chair for the life of me I couldn't get to that backpack efficiently with only one arm that was able to actually reach back behind my chair effectively airgo how's the shoulder is affected on the bad arm as well, let alone pick out an open everything .however most C-5 not all, Should be able to do it with enough practice. As for the suprapubic changing the dressing can't be done without two arms that can utilize that grip. Then there's also the fear no sensation of the bladder, penis, hands that one could hurt themselves without realizing it, that can be disregarded by some though.

    - Driving: A lot of C5 to do this, not all. But you know what I believe that most could. Having said that efficiency wise, risk wise make it not worth it for some with less function, more spasms etc. . Now for me personally keep in mind I was in a horrific car accident. It didn't really traumatize Me but for me to let myself drive I half to be able to actually firmly grasp that wheel. So you could say it's more of a choice I don't pursue driving yet. Which I can't deny. Having said that there is some logic here it is . You can get automatic buckles, seatbelts, wipers etcso all that can be taken care of for someone with no core stability you can use a chest strap. Now big bumps, strong turns along with heavy spasticity could potentially ruin your set up, and as someone that wouldn't be able to readjust everything just right by themselves that's a concern. But my main concern is my better functioning arm would naturally have to take The wheel, to ensure good shoulder function and most importantly healthy forearm and wrist function to keep my head safely and staple in the grip. So that leaves my right arm to do the accelerating and breaking naturally because I can't even keep the forearm stable with proper pronation and supination muscles something would have to keep my hand and arm firmly attached to the hand controls, I've never really looked into it extensively and this isn't a problem for most quadriplegic from what I read ,so I don't know if something like that exists and if it does I have no idea if I'll be able to get it on and off properly by myself. Right here is what scares me I have absolutely no sensory function in my arms and hands so I have to keep my eyes on them if I'm trying to do something. If I'm trying to drink something myself like a beer glass for example and I get a little cocky or drunk and forget to keep my eyes on it, I will drop it. Even driving my chair I've only had this thing for two years and I put 500 miles on it I still have to check my hand place every now and then or it will slide off. So with steering in the grip, accelerating and breaking I have to be looking at my hands quite a bit taking my eyes off the road putting more than myself at danger.

    Dressing, cooking etc these I don't have to go into frankly if you're a complete C 4-5 it's unlikely you'll be able to do much of this no matter what you do unfortunately, if you're in complete if you work at it enough some may some may not. I can get T-shirts on no problem in my chair, shirts with no zippers or buttons to put socks, underwear, pants it requires both my arms to sit up a bed there's no possibility of leaning around like a lot of these videos (that's what core stability is) since day one I've spent a lot of time in seating positions, for myself I know what I'm talking about now I'm not making excuses it's not eight months after my injury anymore even when I know I can't, I still try and try for the exercise and hopefully to stimulate the spinal cord maybe just the slightest possibility I'll have functional functional recovery even now . I know not likey. But here it is my most desired the transfer:

    - transfers: I wish I had this video after quite some time even with my bad arm I was able to shift my body across the yoga mat, the thing is both my legs were straight out in front of I was able to shift my body and skin across the yoga mat, the thing is both my legs were straight out in front of it me to compensate for the fact that I have no stabilizing muscles. This illusion of balance you'll see is actually just the positioning of my skeleton legs out front head push forward spine bent arms behind me or at my side to stabilize if I remove my arms the positioning of my head is crucial even if you have a little core stabilitythis remains true but when you don't have any core stability it's very different use it differently you move definitely you can just see it, see the difference the slightest movement of the head without the arms and you flop like a fish. Bend the knees now you can flop forward instead of just backward left or right. This is where I know at least a little bit of core stability is crucial to transfer independently,not to mention two C5functioning arms. Actual balance comes from stabilizing muscles the little muscles you don't hear about.


    Now I may not be able to do these right now but as I said my goal is to be independent. I now realize what really matters to me in life, dignity and freedom I don't have these with my injury. I going to bed when someone can put me in it and I get up when someone Will get me up. That isn't independence, that's far from freedom my schedule everything I do revolves around other people. I don't need the ramble on about The dignity, we know what I'm talking Even if you don't agree 100%. The point is I strongly believe I will do all of these things and more, and I'll take an active role in that it's going to require an actual treatment though, and very intense daily physiotherapy. I am the unlucky yet lucky enough to be injured at a time when things are actually happening, not cures but at least something . If I don't I'll leave my money behind to help and as a symbol of what I believe and I'll head out regain what I can for myself and to myself. I Believe I'm ready for that path now, If that is what must be done..

    To those that said you can't base what you can do based on what other people say, Very true. These injuries come at all shapes and sizes even at the same level and there's more than just paralysis some are lucky to avoid others not so much. It just drives me up the wall when there is an incomplete flaccid paralysis C5 preaching and showboating. And when Assumptions are made.

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