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Thread: Asterias Biotherapeutics' Stem Cell Program Is Dead On Arrival

  1. #11
    The FDA will require the trial for just the cells to complete before adding another variable like bio material. If they run out of money as your article suggests that will not happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    With "more complex level" I wanted to say a "higher level of understanding" of spinal cord injury (hope that is a bit more clear)
    Since Hans Keirstead did his discovery about oligodendrocyte derived from embryonic stem cell (more than 10 years ago) lot more has been learned about SCI. Think of the research that Murray Blackmore is doing or Jerry Silver peptide, just to name 2 that CC members are rather familiar with.
    Also let's not forget all the biomaterials that have been developped. Perhaps before moving forward withs Asterias trial it would be a good idea to at least combine the cells with a biomaterial or a drug that give better results in a relevant SCI animal model, possibly a chronic SCI animal model (just to make the clinical trial economically affordable).

    Just my opinion.

    Paolo

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by c473s View Post
    The FDA will require the trial for just the cells to complete before adding another variable like bio material. If they run out of money as your article suggests that will not happen.
    How can you convince investors to put money in a company that the only product it has in the pipeline is old (absolute for SCI) and at best marginally effective in a very small number of people? (that I know animal studies have shown limited recovery and just in rats with mild acute SCI).
    I think most investors will realize there is no profit opportunity in Asterias.
    My point is that if Asterias had already a combination therapy in the pipeline that has shown robust recovery in animal studies, then it could make sense for an investor to put money in it to complete the phase I/II safety.

    Like it or not medical research has to deal with investors to develop therapies in the current scenario and we have to deal with the way they think/act.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  3. #13
    We should hope the angel firms invest in as many as possible. Any profit potential hinges on expanding any curative therapy beyond acute and likely beyond SCI. Best to cheer them all on rather than discourage them.

    The Asterias trial comes with increasing dosage so there is no data to say whether it works or not. To not fail is to never try.

    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    How can you convince investors to put money in a company that the only product it has in the pipeline is old (absolute for SCI) and at best marginally effective in a very small number of people? (that I know animal studies have shown limited recovery and just in rats with mild acute SCI).
    I think most investors will realize there is no profit opportunity in Asterias.
    My point is that if Asterias had already a combination therapy in the pipeline that has shown robust recovery in animal studies, then it could make sense for an investor to put money in it to complete the phase I/II safety.

    Like it or not medical research has to deal with investors to develop therapies in the current scenario and we have to deal with the way they think/act.

    Paolo

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by c473s View Post
    We should hope the angel firms invest in as many as possible. Any profit potential hinges on expanding any curative therapy beyond acute and likely beyond SCI. Best to cheer them all on rather than discourage them.

    The Asterias trial comes with increasing dosage so there is no data to say whether it works or not. To not fail is to never try.
    I am just trying to be pragmatic here, I don't think I am discouraging investors as I don't think they read CareCure.
    Maybe I am missing something, so could you describe the recovery observed in animals with the most effective dosage for animals?
    That is what at best you will see in humans if all goes for the best, even a philanthropist probably wants to know that before donating money.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  5. #15
    I don't remember any interim animal trials. Rat stuff tends to translate poorly into humans. Can you point to me a reference for animal trials? Could you describe any where the increasing doses failed or succeeded ?


    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    I am just trying to be pragmatic here, I don't think I am discouraging investors as I don't think they read CareCure.
    Maybe I am missing something, so could you describe the recovery observed in animals with the most effective dosage for animals?
    That is what at best you will see in humans if all goes for the best, even a philanthropist probably wants to know that before donating money.

    Paolo

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post


    Disclosure:
    The author is short AST. (More...)


    Not to take sides on the AST technology, but it should be noted by the disclosure that the author has a financial interest in lowering the share price for Asterias, and is deliberately painting the worst possible picture here to induce selling.

    Also, consider the source. Seeking Alpha is where idiots go to get bad investment advice from other idiots.

  7. #17
    The SEC quarterly filings here have all the footnotes: http://investor.biotimeinc.com/phoen...805&p=irol-sec

    Here is the news of proceeds from sale of warrants this week: http://asteriasbiotherapeutics.com/a...e-of-warrants/

    Somebody obviously believes to exercise 11.7 million dollars of warrants. Maybe the short sellers didn't do so well.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by c473s View Post
    The SEC quarterly filings here have all the footnotes: http://investor.biotimeinc.com/phoen...805&p=irol-sec

    Here is the news of proceeds from sale of warrants this week: http://asteriasbiotherapeutics.com/a...e-of-warrants/

    Somebody obviously believes to exercise 11.7 million dollars of warrants. Maybe the short sellers didn't do so well.
    Well, so much for the blog from Alexey Bersenev...

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by KofQ View Post
    Not to take sides on the AST technology, but it should be noted by the disclosure that the author has a financial interest in lowering the share price for Asterias, and is deliberately painting the worst possible picture here to induce selling.

    Also, consider the source. Seeking Alpha is where idiots go to get bad investment advice from other idiots.
    I agree with your considerations as it is clear that the article provided the worst possible picture, so I was looking for someone that is optimistic and well informed about AST-OPC1 trial to possibly provide the best possible picture or at least some solid arguments in support of the trial to, in the end, have a more correct picture of the situation.

    Alexey Bersenev in his blog has provided more rational points that seem to make sense and he also seems to know a lot about the field of stem cell research (if you google him you will find a lot of info about him).

    So far I haven't found many solid arguments in support of AST-OPC1 trial... I hope Alexey is wrong, but I am afraid time will prove him right.

    Paolo
    Last edited by paolocipolla; 05-31-2015 at 09:17 AM.
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  10. #20
    Asterias story will unfold as trial progresses. Doubt they release any data early though.
    Last edited by c473s; 05-31-2015 at 04:47 PM. Reason: data not date

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