Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Epidural Stim Implementation time too long!!!

  1. #11
    Senior Member Moe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Springfield
    Posts
    466
    Speaking of which, it reminds me that so far still no medical journal publication from the phase I nor II trial that debuted years ago and kept being postponed, again what's keeping it for being published? How long phase IIb will take this time? Could it have the same fate as PI & II at the end as being 'too specialized' for the reputable publishers? I'm not trying to be an ass, but as much I try to stay optimistic, I admit that my hopes from years ago in this trial are fading away.
    Last edited by Moe; 05-19-2015 at 10:00 AM.

  2. #12
    I can tell you with complete confidence that the Phase II paper will be published and IIb will begin ASAP, followed by Phase III.

  3. #13
    Im just wondering if the benefits that the 4 guys got are even good enough that insurance companies, medicaid medicare, etc. will want to pay for it. Thats also got to weigh heavily on any investors minds.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Tbone57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    156
    Its somewhat daunting to see my fate discussed in terms of recurring income and revenues. Thats a real wake up slap of reality!!!!

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrington314mx View Post
    Im just wondering if the benefits that the 4 guys got are even good enough that insurance companies, medicaid medicare, etc. will want to pay for it. Thats also got to weigh heavily on any investors minds.
    I think the venture capitalists have a firm market analysis before they move forward and invest in anything. As the one lady in the video explains, they're looking at these products as having a global market rather than just being marketed to one lone country. We'll certainly know more by the end of the Courtine human trials with the G-implant called the e-Dura, along with the transcutaneous and subcutaneous trials with NeuroRecovery Tech. For now, this is in research mode so there's nothing for the FDA to fast track yet. It has to at least make it to a clinical trial testing level.
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 05-20-2015 at 11:20 AM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone57 View Post
    Its somewhat daunting to see my fate discussed in terms of recurring income and revenues. Thats a real wake up slap of reality!!!!
    Or journal publications. Even better.

  7. #17
    Alain, how recently were you looking in to Dr. Passover's results? Were you considering going there for the treatment? I just looked over his website (http://www.possover.com/en/site/#spinalcordinjuries/) and it makes it sound like you could possibly learn to stand and even take steps with the implanted nerve stimulator. It does admit that he can't restore normal walking but these are some big claims of success. No mention of the patients injury levels or severity.

    I share Curt's frustration with this. It SEEMS like there are real results with epidural stimulation. In my mind it is much more promising than other treatments but who knows when we'll ever get to try it?

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAMMY View Post
    I think the venture capitalists have a firm market analysis before they move forward and invest in anything. As the one lady in the video explains, they're looking at these products as having a global market rather than just being marketed to one lone country. We'll certainly know more by the end of the Courtine human trials.
    When will the Courtine human trials end?

    By the way, thanks for sharing your information and knowledge with us, Grammy!

    David

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by STOLhorse View Post
    Alain, how recently were you looking in to Dr. Passover's results? Were you considering going there for the treatment? I just looked over his website (http://www.possover.com/en/site/#spinalcordinjuries/) and it makes it sound like you could possibly learn to stand and even take steps with the implanted nerve stimulator. It does admit that he can't restore normal walking but these are some big claims of success. No mention of the patients injury levels or severity.

    I share Curt's frustration with this. It SEEMS like there are real results with epidural stimulation. In my mind it is much more promising than other treatments but who knows when we'll ever get to try it?
    We've never had anything taken to the clinic for public use within 5 years of a test subject being implanted with something in the first place. Not stem cells, medications nor devices. I doubt that many other patient groups are finding that speed either, to put it in true perspective. I see no reason someone would pay $70,000 for a surgically implanted device in a foreign country that hasn't even been optimized for locomotion. The pain array from Medtronic that's being used in the research studies for the last 5 years don't allow for fluid motion because there's so few electrodes (16) and wasn't designed for locomotion in the first place. The researchers are having to tweak the old pain array model to even make it work for their research project. They had to turn one electrode off before the next one could be turned on. I think I'd definitely opt to wait for the correct developed prototype to be put to trial and taken to market by the two companies working on it before consenting to surgery. It's actually got (32) electrodes on the implantable device I believe. In addition to the work being done in the United States, we also have additional work being done in Switzerland. Also, neurosurgical teams need to undergo training on properly locating each one of the implanted prototype devices during surgery. One is implanted on top of the dura and one is below.

    LINK

    "Courtine and his colleagues have developed an implant made of stretchable silicone that can be placed right on nerve tissue, underneath the membrane that protects it, which is called the dura mater. In the January 9 issue of Science, the researchers reported that their new e-dura not only sends signals along the nerves, it has fluid channels that can deliver medication to nerve cells, stimulating them to heal. This work represents a significant advance in the development of biocompatible devices, says Reggie Edgerton, director of the Neuromuscular Research Laboratory at the University of California, Los Angeles: In his own work, Edgerton has placed electrodes outside the dura mater and shown they can help paralyzed patients recover limited movement. But the therapy was limited by the external location of the device. Eventually, he thinks, the technique developed by Courtine could be used to control stimulating devices in a manner that will permit real-time fine tuning of the functional state of neural networks, making it easier for an individual perform movements rather automatically.

    The Swiss group developed a ribbon of silicone that mimics the softness of the actual dura. They embedded it with gold wires to conduct nerve signals from one end to the other. Since the gold was too stiff, they fractured it with microcracks, enabling it to bend along with the silicone. The scientists then compared the performance of the e-dura to that of an implant made with stiffer wires. The different implants were placed in separate groups of rats with similar spinal cord damage. After six weeks, the rats with stiffer implants had more trouble walking and keeping their balance."
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 05-20-2015 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by STOLhorse View Post
    When will the Courtine human trials end? David
    You're welcomed David. Don't let the fussing get you confused here. NeuroRecovery Technology and G-Therapeutics don't have human trials started yet. Both have devices designed around their research and are planning on trials in the future but I don't know if the designated neurosurgeons have even finished their training either on surgically implanting the prototypes. Dr. Jocelyne Bloch is assisting G. Courtine with that. No start dates have been announced. These devices are not ready to go to the clinic's throughout the world until they have human trials run on them.

    There is recruitment in at University of KY in Louisville but Harkema is still using the old pain 16 electrode array from Medtronic to test AD, blood pressure, heart, etc on 36 test subjects for another 5 years or so. I don't know the long range plans further out than that with the University of Kentucky. Hopefully a superior SCI device will be available for research than the old 16 electrode pain array being used now for stimulation proof in concept testing.

    It's a continuation from the Day 2 Presentation done by Courtine on this video starting at 9:15:00
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAOD_9MIbO0

    Click this link at youtube and slide up to 3:42:00 to hear the final translation strategies to date for G-Therapeutics from the Day 3 program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc_-mwJ-7As
    Last edited by GRAMMY; 05-20-2015 at 12:24 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. It has been a long time...
    By 1 Fine Spine RN in forum Life
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 12-11-2014, 08:23 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-18-2004, 06:38 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-18-2004, 06:38 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •