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Thread: InVivo Update

  1. #21
    Maybe they only test on Acutes because they're worried that chronic patients would forget that they were even in the trial the very day after transplantation. Almost like Alzheimer's.

  2. #22
    Senior Member khmorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrf View Post
    Don't forget that many Acutes get spontaneous return with no therapy of any kind. If this happens with any of the patients then Invivo can use the "data" to mislead the whole community again. Intervention on Acutes is a BullShit game.
    I'm no neurologist, but I'll bet a MRI will give a good indication which patients are likely to make a good recovery with no treatment. I'll bet they don't select these patients because 1) as you say, they provide little indication whether the treatment is actually effective, and 2) if such a patient did not make a good recovery, the patient might have grounds for a malpractice suit, i.e. the treatment did more harm than good.

    As a matter of fact, I would think item 2 above might be an issue regardless.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    Maybe they only test on Acutes because they're worried that chronic patients would forget that they were even in the trial the very day after transplantation. Almost like Alzheimer's.
    What? Are you able to say anything with a positive attitude? Or not? Almost like Alzheimers...

  4. #24
    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-0...inal-cord.html

    Researchers from the Mayo Clinic demonstrated that implantation of a biomaterial scaffold designed to bridge the lesion caused by a spinal cord injury creates a tissue environment more favorable for nerve regeneration. The desirable tissue reaction to the implant did not appear to depend on whether the scaffold was seeded with tissue-specific cells, according to the study published in Tissue Engineering, Part A.
    Anthony Windebank, MD and coauthors, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN, evaluated the response of nerve tissue over time to an implanted biomaterial scaffold, with or without Schwann cells, at the site of a full transection spinal cord injury in rats. In the article "Positively Charged Oligo[Poly(Ethylene Glycol) Fumarate] Scaffold Implantation Results in a Permissive Lesion Environment after Spinal Cord Injury in Rat," the authors report reduced scarring, cyst formation, and deposition of debris and protein complexes that can inhibit nerve regeneration. Seeding of Schwann cells in the scaffold channels did not have a significant effect on the lesion environment. Future research to discover therapeutic agents able to block the fibrotic response to these scaffolds could improve their ability to bridge spinal cord lesions.
    "In their study of spinal cord transection injury in rats, Hakim et al. discovered that bare scaffold implantation?but not implantation of scaffold plus Schwann cells?temporarily enabled a 'regeneration permissive' environment, in which immediate scarring of the spinal cord was forestalled," says Peter C. Johnson, MD, Vice President, Research and Development and Medical Affairs, Vancive Medical Technologies and President and CEO, Scintellix, LLC, Raleigh, NC. "While scaffold fibrosis ultimately ensued, the notion that proper scaffold design alone could provide sufficient time for axonal growth across spinal cord gaps has reemerged as an interesting target of study."
    "I'm manic as hell-
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by khmorgan View Post
    I'm no neurologist, but I'll bet a MRI will give a good indication which patients are likely to make a good recovery with no treatment. I'll bet they don't select these patients because 1) as you say, they provide little indication whether the treatment is actually effective, and 2) if such a patient did not make a good recovery, the patient might have grounds for a malpractice suit, i.e. the treatment did more harm than good.

    As a matter of fact, I would think item 2 above might be an issue regardless.
    MRI's don't tell us squat as far as who will make a good recovery and who won't. Brian Kwon gave a presentation at W2W in Seattle this past year where he showed a number of MRIs of people with the same level and ASIA score of spinal cord injuries, and they all looked vastly different. In fact, his entire talk was pretty much about how MRIs tell us nothing about the potential recovery someone may make, and thus we need to find better ways to predict potential recovery to make acute SCI research more focused and effective.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    MRI's don't tell us squat as far as who will make a good recovery and who won't. Brian Kwon gave a presentation at W2W in Seattle this past year where he showed a number of MRIs of people with the same level and ASIA score of spinal cord injuries, and they all looked vastly different. In fact, his entire talk was pretty much about how MRIs tell us nothing about the potential recovery someone may make, and thus we need to find better ways to predict potential recovery to make acute SCI research more focused and effective.
    I'm glad you remembered his presentation. I do remember seeing the slides showing the 8 spinal cord injuries all from the same airplane crash. For anyone interested in what Dr. Brian Kwon was talking about, HERE IS THE PRESENTATION LINK:

  7. #27
    I agree that images from MRI are not predictive of recovery (because outcome data shows that), but I'm not willing to make the logical jump that improvement in the already injured cord in also not predictive. The former does not prove the latter. It may or may not predictive. That's why we need functional outcomes data

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by taymas View Post
    What? Are you able to say anything with a positive attitude? Or not? Almost like Alzheimers...
    Sure.

    Invivo therapy = converting completes to incompletes. Invivo therapy = Acute therapy. Acute SCI = Chronic SCI. Therefore, Invivo therapy = converting chronic completes to incompletes.

    NowhereMan = chronic complete. Therefore, if NowhereMan takes Invivo treatment, NowhereMan = convert from complete to incomplete.

    It's just a matter of when I can get my hands on the Invivo scaffold. Looking from a pessimistic timeline, at most it will be 6 years! I can't wait to feel the grass again and take long walks. Maybe join a softball league. 6 years at most!

  9. #29
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    I wonder what would happen if you took a chronic incomplete. Detether the spinal chord cleaned out the scar tissue then inserted the scaffold. Bad thing is you wont no until you try.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by #LHB# View Post
    I wonder what would happen if you took a chronic incomplete. Detether the spinal chord cleaned out the scar tissue then inserted the scaffold. Bad thing is you wont no until you try.

    Well, they've been testing their scaffold in rats and monkeys for what..10 years? They are a business looking for profit, which means they would want as large as a target market as possible (i.e. chronics). I think they know exactly how their scaffold would or would not help in a chronic incomplete injury.

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