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  1. #1
    Junior Member TogsT8's Avatar
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    Need advice on ordering Tilite TR3 and COG

    I am ordering my 2nd Tilite TR3 in 2 years. Made a few measuring mistakes on the first one and am hoping to avoid as many as possible this time.
    I've listed specs of both my current chair and proposed chair below.
    Question RE: Center of Gravity:

    The current chair has 60 degree front and the proposed one has 70 degrees. My calculations are that the new chair will be about 3" shorter. Additionally, I'm adding 1 inch of frame depth. (I believe I ordered my current chair too short and have compensated by loosening the back upholstery to allow my back to go about 2 inches beyond the backrest post. Right now I have 4.25" of COG. I'm wondering if there is a way to calculate if there will be a change in the COG measurement. I don't know if it matters but I'm 6'2" 150lbs. Appreciate any input you may have.

    Togs

    |
    | Here's my current chair
    | TRFS1 TiLite TR SERIES 3
    |
    |
    | TRSW1 18" SEAT WIDTH
    | TRFSW1 NO SEAT TAPER - V-FRONT
    | TRSD1 18" SEAT DEPTH
    | TRFSH1 19.5" FRONT SEAT HEIGHT
    | TRRSH1 18.5" REAR SEAT HEIGHT
    | TRFA1 60 DEGREE FRONT ANGLE
    | 17.5" SEAT TO FOOTREST
    | TRFTR2 TI OPEN LOOP FOOTREST
    | TRFE2 14" V-FRONT TAPER
    | TRSB1 FOLDING ALUMINUM BACKREST NCO
    | TRSB4 TITANIUM BACKREST RELEASE BAR
    | TRSB6 INTEGRATED PUSH HANDLES NCO
    | ALUM 13.5"-16.5" FOLDING ADJ-HT BACK
    | 16" SEAT BACK HEIGHT
    | TRSB12 4" DEEP BACKREST RIGIDIZER BAR
    | TRSBA2 FOLDING BACK ANGLE
    | 92 DEGREE SEAT BACK ANGLE
    | TRCOG1 4.25" CENTER OF GRAVITY
    | TRRWS1 .75" REAR WHEEL SPACING
    | TRCBR3 TITANIUM 4 DEGREE CAMBER
    | 6" FRONT WHEELS
    | TRFW9 PLASTIC W/POLY CASTERS NCO
    | TRFK1 TiLite STANDARD FORK STD
    |
    | 24" LX Spinergy Back Wheels
    | TRAXL1 STAINLESS QUICK RELEASE AXLES STD
    | TRRTR1 TREADED TIRES STD
    | TRRIM1 SILVER ANO HANDRIMS STD
    | TRRIM7 SHORT HANDRIM TABS STD
    | TRWLK7 COMPACT COMPOSITE PUSH TO LOCK STD
    | TRUPC1 BLACK UPHOLSTERY STD
    |
    | TRSUP1 TENSION ADJ BOLT ON SEAT UPH STD
    |
    | TRCLF2 VELCRO ADJ CALF STRAP LG K0038


    Here's the new specs

    Tilite TR Series 3
    18" Seat Width (no taper)
    18" Seat Depth
    19 Custom Frame Depth
    70 Degree Front Angle
    19.5" Front Seat Height
    17" Rear Seat Height
    17.5" Seat To Footrest Height
    V Front
    Titanium Open Loop Footrest 9? Wide
    4? Deep Ridgedizer bar
    Folding Seat back (aluminum)13.5? -16.5?(integrated push handles)
    Set @ 13.5"
    92 Degree Back
    3.5" Center Of Gravity
    .75" Rear Wheel Spacing
    Titanium Camber Tube TRCBR3
    0 Degree Camber
    Uni-Lock Set At: Push TRWLK3
    6?x1.5? LiteSpeed Billet Aluminum Wheel w/Soft Roll Tire
    Standard Fork w/ Titanium Stems
    Rear Wheels: 25" Golz Twin-star Exchange Wheels w/
    Schwalbe Speedrun Tires
    Short Tab Titanium Handrims
    Axles: Stainless Quick Release TRAXL1
    Back Upholstery TRBUP2 ❑ Velcro Adjustable
    Will replace with Jayback J3 with extended hardware
    Seat Upholstery:Tension adjustable by straps
    Roho Cushion High Profile 18.25? L x 16.5? W

  2. #2
    The TR3's CoG is super adjustable. Why do you need to know before hand; do you desire curved back tubing joints? If not you can just order it with less than 3.5" (forcing squared tubing jhoints) and adjust it after you get it.

    Name:  Capture.JPG
Views: 573
Size:  33.8 KB

    If you'd like to compare Overall Frame Lengths of the two chairs, I can draw them for you. Let me know.

    (I drew mine before ordering.

    Here's a video of it.)

    No, it's not easy to calculate CoG.
    Last edited by chasmengr; 02-19-2015 at 09:21 PM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  3. #3
    Junior Member TogsT8's Avatar
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    Chasmengr:
    Yes. I think your strategy makes sense. No need to fool around. I'll order the square rear end. I was originally thinking that the round rear frame would be more stable and less apt to break... but the trade off is not worth it. Also, would your drawing program be able to reveal the wheel base and exact width of the chair? I'd like a drawing if it's not too much trouble. I am trying to figure out the best way to get wheels closer to the frame. My current chair has a .75" wheel space but it seems like it could easily be narrowed by .5". I'd like to spec a .5" and then try 0 degree camber... but they won't let you order it that way. So I'll try .75" and 0 camber and see if that make it better.
    Last edited by TogsT8; 02-20-2015 at 01:25 PM. Reason: address to poster specifically

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TogsT8 View Post
    . . . Also, would your drawing program be able to reveal the wheel base and exact width of the chair? . . .
    My drawings will yield only approximate wheelbase and width because I have to guess at some measurements TiLite doesn't publish. If you tell me what your current wheelbase is, my drawings will be more accurate. TiLite has a chair-width calculator on their website.

    To determine my seat width, I sat on the floor with one thigh/hip against a door, placed a large book (e.g., coffee-table book) vertically against my other hip, and had another person measure my hip width (inside face of book to door). Because I have full sensation and often stand (don't desire a tight fitting chair), I rounded up to the next full inch, and use sideguards to keep wheels from rubbing my clothes.

    I will start drawing today, and expect to be done early next week, hopefuly sooner. Do you want a movie or just pics (i.e., screen shots)?
    Last edited by chasmengr; 02-20-2015 at 05:10 PM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  5. #5
    I'd be curious to see you sitting in your current chair.
    C5-6 Complete - 8/13/1982

  6. #6
    Junior Member TogsT8's Avatar
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    Hello everyone:

    I took a little break from wheelchair specifying to take stock and think about what everyone was saying. But, I want to say the generous feedback I have received here has been invaluable in specifying the new chair. And I know everyone on this forum knows just how important that is.

    i.e. Brianm and others have pointed out my current chair is too wide. That thought never even occurred to me... and after research have found that too wide a chair can be responsible for hip displacement and scoliosis... which unfortunately, I've already started to suffer from (I've been using a too wide wheelchair for 33 years).

    After testing one out at the therapists, I'm specifiying a 16" wide chair. 2" narrower. A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

    Another major help was Chasmengr's video. I was able to see the actual dump angle of the new chair vs. my old and will adjust my rear seat height up a bit.

    Way back in the thread I mentioned have a sling seat and loosened it to give me more dump.. but this is bad for the posture. A suggestion made here to get a board insert will be acted on.

    Also, many have advised getting an adjustable chair. That is probably wise, but I think it's hard to translate some measurements of chair types to others. Also, the one thing I like about my Tilite is it's solid and lightweight design. The adjustables are a bit of a compromise along those lines. Plus, I feel, despite the seemingly millions of variations, I can use my current chair and it's faults to get me very close to perfect. (Again, advise here has been essential) Plus, there is always some adjustability with the seat sling (ill advised I know) and wheel size (24 vs. 25) that can fine tune even the non adjustable chair.. if I'm a little off.

    Mike G: I have been consulting with a specialist at Magee Rehab in Phila. My therapist has many years of experience. She does however state that beyond the basics, much of a fit is personal preference. She has been very helpful... but, she doesn't use a wheelchair, and you guys do. In the end I will spec it based on my experience, the forum's experience and the therapists knowledge dealing with years of this stuff.

    Here's where I am now...

    NEW CHAIR SPECS:


    Tilite TR Series 3
    Seat Width (no taper): 16" (was 18")
    18" Seat Depth
    No Custom Frame Depth (I decided the extra inch wasn't going to effect my position relative to the seat posts... which I tend to sit behind an inch or 2)
    70 Degree Front Angle (Was 60 degree)
    19.5" Front Seat Height
    17.5" Rear Seat Height (Was 18.5) (16.00" with loosened seat upholstery)
    17" Seat To Footrest Height (Was 17.5")
    Adustable Footrest 10? Wide
    4? Deep Ridgedizer bar
    Folding Seat back (aluminum)13.5? -16.5?(integrated push handles)
    Set @ 13.5"
    92 Degree Back
    3.0" Center Of Gravity
    .75" Rear Wheel Spacing
    Titanium Camber Tube TRCBR3
    2 Degree Camber (Was 4 degree)
    Standard Push breaks
    6?x1.5? LiteSpeed Billet Aluminum Wheel w/Soft Roll Tire
    Standard Fork w/ Titanium Stems
    Rear Wheels: 25" Golz Twin-star Exchange Wheels w/
    Schwalbe marathon plus evolusion (current chair: 24" LX Spinergy)
    Short Tab Aluminum Handrims
    Axles: Stainless Quick Release TRAXL1
    Back Upholstery TRBUP2 ❑ Velcro Adjustable
    Will replace with Jayback J3 with extended hardware
    Seat Upholstery:Tension adjustable by straps (was bolt on)
    Roho Cushion high profile.


    I'll sleep on it for a couple of days and pull the trigger on the order.
    If anyone sees any glaring errors... please let me know!


    Thank you

    Scott

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TogsT8 View Post
    ...clip...and wheel size (24 vs. 25) that can fine tune even the non adjustable chair....clip...
    You're braver than me. I'd never order a new fixed chair.
    Fixed chairs are not as adjustable as you might think. The caster steering axle, the vertical axle, cannot be adjusted and it must be kept vertical. Changes to the rear wheels configuration can affect those front steering axles.
    Last edited by nonoise; 03-18-2015 at 06:34 PM.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  8. #8
    yea. a picture of you in current chair would help.
    walking is OVER-RATED!!!

    Broken in August 14th, 2003. T9-L1 complete.

  9. #9
    Junior Member TogsT8's Avatar
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    Assorted photos

    Thanks for your response. Here's a few pictures... not much of a photographer. BTW Chasmengr: That's a very generous offer to draw the chair. And enjoyed the video. I was able to determine the frame length by subtracting the 10 degrees front angle (-3")and adding the extra inch of frame length. approx. 2" less overall.
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  10. #10
    Junior Member TogsT8's Avatar
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    Yep. I thought about that. I was kind of hoping a small change in the angle wouldn't affect the front casters...
    but I secretly worried. (I'm not that courageous.) OK.. well that idea is out. I'll just have to stick to seat sling if necessary. Again... my current chair is a TR3 and I've had to loosen the sling seat to give 2" to make it lower. This should be a major improvement from that.

    Thanks for clarifying the verticality issue.

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