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Thread: Fitting Marathon Plus Evolution tires on Spinergy rims

  1. #1
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Fitting Marathon Plus Evolution tires on Spinergy rims

    After 1.5 years the moment I have been dreading is here. We've got a slow leak on one of the Marathon Plus Evolution tires. I had thought I had bought spare tubes and tools, but must have spaced it out. I'm expecting it to be a bear to replace the tube, and want to get whatever I need to for making this as easy as possible and also prevent flats. Quality is more important than price on this.

    Note: I know I can go to a bike shop, of which there is one in almost every town here, but I prefer to do it myself to know that is done properly with the right materials.

    I'm sure these points have been covered, but I think they are scattered over various threads. As usual I have some questions that I'm hoping anyone can give input on:

    Tubes: Is this the best tube and the correct size for 25-540 MPEs? Schwalbe AV 9A Fits ETRTO size: 25-540 Fits tire size: 24 x 1.00 tube Schraeder #10419240 http://www.schwalbetires.com/wheelchair/tubes.

    Rim tape: I'm pretty sure I want to go with Schwalbe High Pressure Rim Tape http://www.schwalbetires.com/accessories/rim_tape. Which is the size size for 25-540 MPEs on Spinergy rims, because I can't find any for 25-540. The available sizes are: 24" 22 mm 22-507 or 32 mm 32-507, or 26" 25 mm for 25-559. I'm thinking that the 25 mm for 25-559 would be best to fit the width and not run short. I've also heard that Velox rim tape is good, but I think I want to stay with Schwalbe unless there are good reasons not to. Is it necessary to change the rim tape if it looks to be in good shape after 1.5 years of use and is not dimpling?

    Pressure guage:
    I've heard that this is one of the best for not leaking air (Spinergy recommended). Any input? Schwalbe Airmax Pro Digital Bicycle Tire Pressure Gauge http://www.schwalbetires.com/accesso...ols/airmax_pro

    I'm going to try this method but I am not all that confident I will manage it:


    Tire levers: Assuming I won't manage without tire levers, I'm looking for the best tire levers or jacks that I can find. I've broken a lot of them over the years, especially plastic ones, so this time I want to get the absolute best I can find for at-home use (size/weight not important) that are known to work with MPEs on Spinergy rims. Any input?

    Park Tool Heavy Duty Steel Tire Lever Set - TL-5 http://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Heav...G9JWE7QKTB5MPC
    Park Tool Tl-6 Steel Core Tire Levers http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...e+Tire+Levers+
    Schwalbe Bicycle Tire Levers http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-1388-...S0ES5218P14PGF
    Pedros Tire Levers http://www.amazon.com/Pedros-Bicycle...ros+Tire+Lever
    Pedro's Downhill Bicycle Tire Lever http://www.amazon.com/Pedros-Downhil...ros+Tire+Lever
    Crank Brothers Speedier Lever http://www.amazon.com/Crank-Brothers...4NMZXCC2ZW317C
    Quik Stik http://www.amazon.com/Quik-Stik-Chan...ords=Quik+Stik
    Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack http://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire...Tire+Bead+Jack
    Tire Wheelchair Bead Jack http://www.sportaid.com/tire-bead-jack.html
    VAR Pro Tire Lever http://www.amazon.com/VAR-RP-43000-V.../dp/B004YJ3122
    VAR Tyre Lever http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/var-tyre-levers-prod27539/
    Top Peak Shuttle Lever http://www.topeak.com/products/Tools/ShuttleLever1_2
    Ice Toolz DH Steel Tire Lever http://www.amazon.com/Ice-Toolz-Stee...olz+tire+lever
    Specialized Pry Babies (I can't seem to find a link to these anywhere)
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  2. #2
    E, I have spokeless rims (MagicWheels); I don't need rim tape anymore. That said, I'd determine correct width: 25mm (per pic below). Then buy a roll of Schwalbe's best fabric rim tape, and cut to length myself. Wrinkles in rim tape are bad.

    Regarding irons, you need not be fancy. Just get three all-metal bicycle irons - the most common newbie mistake when changing tires is pinching the tube - plan on it by having several spare tubes on hand. This style is my first choice; this style is my second choice (remember, you'll need 3 individual irons). (Also remember I don't have spokes; heavy duty irons with spoke hooks is what I'd recommend for you, but I cannot find any.) Here is a tire-iron review.

    BTW after fixing about three flats in a row several weeks apart, I went to a bike shop. They said my MPE tires were old and causing the flats: new MPEs = no more flats


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    Last edited by chasmengr; 01-27-2015 at 06:15 PM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  3. #3
    I thought I learned changing tires when I was a kid since we always got flats, but when I was faced with mpes and Spinergy's it was a whole new world. I'll tell you what I learned and show you my kit. First the fellow at REI who does their tire changing came out to me and gave me a hand when I was trying to decide which levers to get. He said "I just come out and get these". Those happened to be the cheapest one's which are the store brand. He said never use metal, always plastic. Why not expensive plastic? I asked. They all break. Just get extras. I gambled and only bought three. Three is a minimum, two to hold progress and one to advance.

    On the rim tape, I did as you and assumed 25. Somehow, I think through my contact with my supplier, I ended up talking to a Schwalbe rep. He said that number represents the bottom width of the rim and that for those wheels I should be getting a 16, which he then sent me.

    It looks like we agree on the tube. You really don't want to try to fit the wrong size tube either too small or large in that space.

    Snot, (Easy Fit, right side of picture) I don't remember who or where I bumped into this, but products like it are used in the automotive industry all the time. I would not try to remove or install a mpe on a Spinergy without it. It's even needed to check when you are done to see if there are any pinches. It is *not* as easy as that video. The tire will be tight. If you have a pinch, you will need some snot to free it.

    Lastly he used a couple of ties to hold the tire on the rim. You can notice in my picture some velcro. It is needed, but not the way he used his. Getting that last foot or so on is a, well it will use up your four letter vocabulary.


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    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  4. #4
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Thanks Chas. Nice that you can forego the rim tape these days. Thanks for the details Nonoise. I was writing this as your post came in.

    I use to bicycle tour, so I'm not new to fitting tires, I'm just new with the MPE's and I know they are tough getting off and on.

    I realised after posting about this that we actually have some government budget for this, because I do all of our maintenance. I think I can splurge out a little on tire supplies, especially considering it will be my weekend entertainment -- more likely my husbands entertainment as I "use up my four letter vocabulary". Good thing I can do that in multiple languages

    Although the MPE's are only 1.5 years old, I don't think they are very worn or damaged. I'm going to get some spares either way, along with a extra tubes.

    Chas -- I was thinking about going with the Schwalbe High Pressure Rim Tape, but it does not appear to be fabric as you suggested. Any reason you recommend fabric, because the High Pressure tape seems to be rated well?

    Nonoise -- The width is what I was concerned about. I remember asking Spinergy what the rim width was, but I don't seem to have documented it, and I definitely do not know what the rim well width is, which is what Schwalbe seems to be basing the ETRTO size on. What you show looks reasonable based on the pictures at "Which rim tape should I use?". I think I will go with Art.No. 10870086 Wheel Size: 24" Width: 16 mm ETRTO Size: 16-540.
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    Interesting about the "Snot" Easy Fit - Tire Mounting Fluid. I'll definitely be getting some of that also.

    I've mostly used the alloy levers with hooks and still have some or when touring the plastic levers with hooks, but that was a while ago. I think I may try the Park TL-6 so I don't damage the rims too bad while removing, along with some new Schwalbe and Pedros plastic levers. I think I'll also try a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack so that hopefully I can avoid pinching the tubes (even good ole Sheldon Brown recommended it at What Every Cyclist Should Know About Flat Tires). This a good video showing it on some difficult Continental tires:


    I noticed that this lever might be a good option for people with limited hand function, and I may add it to the bag of tricks also: Crank Brothers Speedier Lever. Watch the video from Crank Brothers.
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    Chas -- While I am ordering bike stuff, I'm looking to get a wrench to use on our D's Lock adapters. It's the hex shaped adapter that the piston screws into. I think it is 28 mm. Do you think this Park cone wrench would work for that?
    Last edited by elarson; 01-28-2015 at 12:14 PM.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  5. #5
    E, I bought a set of Park TL-6 a while back. Their coating is junk for MPEs. The very first time I used them on MPEs the coating broke off their tips, and I had to expose the metal just to use them (they work great without the coating). I disagree with using plastic-type irons. I use metal ones with great success, and (unlike plastic) they never break.

    Method I use: 1) remove valve stem from new tube, 2) seat one side of tire on rim, 3) insert tube stem in rim hole, snug stem nut, and work tube into tire making sure it has no twists, 4) inflate tube slightly (to about 10-15 psi - this eliminates wrinkles and moves tube toward outside of tire and away from the rim), 5) remove pump to deflate tube, 6) with hands then irons, work other side of tire onto rim being careful to avoid pinching the tube, 7) reinstall stem valve, make sure stem is straight, and inflate.

    I've found step 4 really eases the whole process with MPEs on both wire Spinergys and MagicWheels. I've never needed to use ties nor lubricant.

    That wrench should work on the D's. I use a crescent wrench, so I don't know what size the nut is.
    I have many tools left over from my years with bikes and years as a plumber. Gosh, I just realized some of my tools are almost 50 years old.
    Last edited by chasmengr; 01-28-2015 at 01:33 AM.
    Chas
    TiLite TR3
    Dual-Axle TR3 with RioMobility DragonFly
    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
    <
    UNKNOWN AUTHOR>

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    ...I disagree with using plastic-type irons....clip...MPEs on both wire Spinergys and MagicWheels. I've never needed to use ties nor lubricant...clip...
    As tempting as it is, I have no interest in scratching my SPOX or LX wheels with a metal pry bar. I suspect wire Spinergys have more room between the lips to mount the tires than the PBO spoke wheels do. But some people get really good at it. I've done several sets now, off and on for various reasons such as swapping hand rims and frankly, I don't like doing it. That's why I have not bothered getting tires for those LX's in the photo.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  7. #7
    I second the Tire Bead Jack that's been discussed. I'd like to get one of those and see how it works - movies make it look great. I recently got Spinergies with Kendas (tighter fit than the MPEs, perhaps??!) and had to give up and take to the bike shop. Bike shop told me that because I got both sides of tire on in one spot, with no parts of tire on in other spots, this was my mistake. I don't know. Unfortunately it was well worth the cheap price they charged me because my hands gave up. I have replaced tires before (Primos on Sun Rims) and those work nicely...I can do it myself in a bit.

    Not sure if you have seen this YouTube video yet - looks like he is using some version of Schwalbe's on Spinergy wheels. He makes it look easy; I'm jealous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s-5mdG-PoA He also uses a spray cleaner to help things along - perhaps this is similar to your Tire Snot that you reference.

    My vote goes for plastic tire levers, only because I don't want to scratch / scar my rims with metal tire levers. Primos on Sun Rims, I got away with a set of two (three would have been nice). Now that the Kendas are here, I have four (two sets of two). My next investment will be a Tire Bead Jack, IMO...just to see if I can do a tire change myself (so far Kendas on Spinergys rolling awesome, tubes great, so want to leave well enough alone!)

    Now, your mileage may vary for the following, but here goes (credit to "The Country Boys" who used their farm skills to teach this girl to repair her own chairs):
    I also use Slime in my wheelchair tire tubes. It sure helps with the slow leaks I get, although I invested in better tubes and no problems so far. On the older set of tires/tubes, works great. Hardly ever have to worry about flats unless the tube's all the way totaled. The CST brand tubes get Slime at first; I have some Kenda brand tubes (& Kenda brand tires) - and didn't have to use the Slime in the Kendas yet.

    I was also taught a trick to "powder a rim" when putting on a new tire. You can use bath powder for this (like you would powder your feet or other parts of your body after a shower). Do so outside and preferably in an area visible to understanding neighbors (or nobody). "Poof" some powder on the rim and circle it around. "Poof" some more as necessary. Warning, when I do this, powder goes everywhere and it always happens that I dump a lot more than I'm expecting (who opened it all the way?!). Your front yard / porch can look like a druggist or chemist visited (now you know why I said to do it on the side with the understanding neighbors, laugh). "The Country Boys" told me that powdering the rim allows the tube to move back and forth in the tire (just a tad) - and it seems to keep the flats away. Powdering a tire tube is apparently common practice for "The Country Boys," so I decided it was a good idea to follow...free teaching and help with chair repairs so I didn't have to pay $70 per hour in the metro...

    Good luck! I would also recommend making sure your wheels are still true and all those little things that should be done while the tires are off...as it will be much easier, chuckle!

    Keep us posted on what works. Good luck not hurting your fingers, although swearing in 4 languages sounds quite liberating.

    Mystery

  8. #8
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    I am no genius, but I was surprised that there are very few tire/tube choice. My MPE did last probably same time you are saying My traction on the tires went down the toilet. They still did have a bunch of tread on them. Bike shop said no need to change. Traction was horrible.. I did have bike shop change them and extremely happy. I did try change myself before that. I had multiple wrenches. I have extremely good upper body. My personal opinion with the MPE, take them to the bike shop. They will not damage rim or pinch anything. could not even get the tire started to come off the rim. I was worried about doing damage to rim.

  9. #9
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    I had levers and was worried about doing damage myself with the lever. Those tires are very well constructed.

  10. #10
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Good to know about the Park TL-6. I'll go back to the Park TL-5, which seems to be the standard in the bike biz. I've still got my trusty metal alloy tire levers -- I think they are 25 years old, but I"m missing one. I'm getting the plastic-type to try and also for carrying along on the chair.

    Thanks for your instructions. They are pretty much my method on bikes, except for the removing the valve stem (not possible with Presta or Dunlop tubes). I have not worked on tires with auto valves since my old Schwinn circa 1970!

    About the D's adapter nut, I don't have a large adjustable wrench, and when I've borrowed one it was really bulky to use. I think I'll go with the Park cone wrench (also much cheaper for a decent quality). I'll probably verify the size with D's Locks just to make sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    E, I bought a set of Park TL-6 a while back. Their coating is junk for MPEs. The very first time I used them on MPEs the coating broke off their tips, and I had to expose the metal just to use them (they work great without the coating). I disagree with using plastic-type irons. I use metal ones with great success, and (unlike plastic) they never break.

    Method I use: 1) remove valve stem from new tube, 2) seat one side of tire on rim, 3) insert tube stem in rim hole, snug stem nut, and work tube into tire making sure it has no twists, 4) inflate tube slightly (to about 10-15 psi - this eliminates wrinkles and moves tube toward outside of tire and away from the rim), 5) remove pump to deflate tube, 6) with hands then irons, work other side of tire onto rim being careful to avoid pinching the tube, 7) reinstall stem valve, make sure stem is straight, and inflate.

    I've found step 4 really eases the whole process with MPEs on both wire Spinergys and MagicWheels. I've never needed to use ties nor lubricant.

    That wrench should work on the D's. I use a crescent wrench, so I don't know what size the nut is.
    I have many tools left over from my years with bikes and years as a plumber. Gosh, I just realized some of my tools are almost 50 years old.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

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