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Thread: Is a ZRA worth the additional out of pocket cost over a AeroZ?

  1. #21
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    From your list, the only things I can see that you can acquire elsewhere are indeed the LXs, MPEs, and Surge LT.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    For some reason the thought of buying the uncovered parts of my own didn't even occur to me. I just looked up the cost of buying the LXs, MPEs, and Surge LT on Sportaid, and it'll save me almost a whopping $500. I'm guessing those are the only things I can acquire elsewhere right? The other upgrades all seem specific to Tilite and the frame.
    [Note: this was edited for a correction about titanium axles]I would really encourage you to get all of the standard and no charge options that you can with the chair if you are going to purchase separately the uncovered parts. You won't pay any extra for that and you will have backups should you ever need them. In your case this would be the the TiLite Shadow wheels, tires, and possibly the titanium or stainless steel quick release axles. The Sportaid axles are their own third-party product. We purchased the Sportaid stainless steel quick release axles and they are interchangeable with the axles we got for the TiLite Shadow wheels. We find the quality to be good and the only real difference is the logo on the button.

    In my experience, neither dealers or TiLite are all that helpful when configuring a chair for aftermarket products like the Spinergy wheels, as they won't be making any money from it. Still, I would note what you plan to do on the order form. When they send you a CAD drawing to approve (definitely require this), it will be based on the products from the order form. Make sure you double check that it will work based on what you plan to buy separately, for example, even a different tire profile can affect you rear seat height and your rear wheel spacing. This is the Aero Z order form.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    Thanks for that thread as well though, because now I know I need to let Tilite know I'll still be using Spinergy wheels so they can build the chair for those specifically. Having backup parts IS awfully tempting though, but at 30%, that's still probably a couple hundred extra.
    My husband has very good dextirity on his non-affected side (he has hemipresis -- one sided paralysis). We were going for the narrowest chair width as possible, and he did not feel he needed the regular Surge rim, even though he has large hands. I think I remember many here doing the same, and you might want to search on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    Also, why'd you guys go with the Surge LT over the regular Surge? I just looked again and realized the LT ones are a little shorter in vertical height, but I'm wondering if my hands (which are fairly large) would actually be better suited to the regular Surges instead.
    I think what others were mentioning about CF was more in relation to the camber tube than to the side gauards. We have only had aluminium side guards in the past, but really like the ADI CF side guards for the light weight. They are very durable and have shown no signs of scratches, cracks, etc. in 1.5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    I'm too lazy to take a photo of this right now, but my concern with side guard durability is because the current plastic guards I have on my Revolution (and the Quickie I had before) have all snapped and cracked around the metal stems, and also have been worn down where they've rubbed against the wheels. This happened because the metal brackets weren't tight enough to completely immobilize them, so I'd have to manually readjust them from time to time (which also led to the aforementioned cracking). So, that said, it doesn't seem like CF is a good option here, given it's fragility, right?
    Just to be clear, we have D's Locks and they add ZERO width to the chair. I can't speak for Surelocks. I'd highly recommend the D's Locks. They are a bit cheaper than SureLocks, and they are a pleasant company to work with. The biggest difference between the two are that SureLocks have a few more holes. We have not found the amount of holes to be an issue for engaging the locks.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    I just read in another thread that the Surelocks don't add any width to the chair either, but is that not the case?
    To my knowledge, TiLite uses the "Everyday - Standard" Narrow Hub with 1.8" bearing spacing. The "Sport" wide hub has 2.3" bearing spacing. This will affect your chair width and is import to know especially if you swap out wheels. I think most of this information is in the thread I sent, but it is also on our website that combines much of that information Rear Wheels / Axles / Tires / Handrims. Here is a copy of the photo's so you can see the difference:





    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    Also, in looking up the SPOX wheels instead, I realized that both the SPOX and LXs all have a standard and sport hub version. What's the difference?
    Last edited by elarson; 01-27-2015 at 10:02 AM.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    ...Just to be clear, we have D's Locks and they add ZERO width to the chair....
    "Adds no width to most wheelchairs" http://www.teamhoc.com/dslocks/benefits

    I don't have room for the disks on my 3D Quickie, and if I widen it I won't be able to get through the bathroom door at my sons house, lol.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  3. #23
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I should have clarified that. As long as there is room on the camber tube of a Aero Z / ZRA, it does not add width to the chair. On my husband's it's a bit of a tight squeeze with having the D's Locks with anti-tips and needing to attach the ZX-1 power add-on with a 16" chair. Lots of stuff competing for limited space.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    "Adds no width to most wheelchairs" http://www.teamhoc.com/dslocks/benefits

    I don't have room for the disks on my 3D Quickie, and if I widen it I won't be able to get through the bathroom door at my sons house, lol.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  4. #24
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    Two general questions:

    1) Do TiLites come with a horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default, or is that what the 4" deep option on the order forms is for? If I don't select that, does it mean I simply don't have a bar on the back? On my current chair, that's one of the main hold points for people when they lift my chair up/down steps, so it's a pretty important piece. (Although, looking at the owner's manual for the AeroZ, it seems they actually warn against holding on to detachable parts when lifting - and the backrest IS detachable, is it not?)

    2) If I get the MPEs, is it still a good idea to get the Tuffy liners that SA has an a $10 add-on option, or are the MPEs already good enough on their own?

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    From my limited knowledge of insurance and Medicaid in the US, coverage is only based on justification for what is done in the home, e.g., not in the community or around the home.
    Oh, well, that's just... silly. Because we should totally stay at home and be non-fully functional human beings. Insurance is so busted out here :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Smashms View Post
    Am i reading this right they won't cover the basic parts it takes to actually make the chair? Ie wheels forks rigidizer bar backrest and such
    I imagine they'll cover the base versions of them - they're not covered here because all of those things are upgrades, in my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    I would really encourage you to get all of the standard and no charge options that you can with the chair if you are going to purchase separately the uncovered parts. You won't pay any extra for that and you will have backups should you ever need them. In your case this would be the the TiLite Shadow wheels, tires, and possibly the stainless steel quick release axles if you decide not to go with titanium. I know that from Sportaid you can only purchase stainless steel quick release axles (the axles are their own third-party product). We purchased them and they are interchangeable with the axles we got for the TiLite Shadow wheels.
    That's actually a great idea, and I think that's what I'll go ahead and do, taking after you and your hubby's approach Has there been a general consensus about the TiLite titanium axles versus the generic Sportaid one on the CC community? I know that video you linked me to previously seemed to suggest the SA ones weren't really quality controlled very well, which makes me a little wary.

    Also, if I do indeed get CF guards separately from ADI or elsewhere, would you recommend I do it through my dealer, or direct with the manufacturer (price wise)? I'm guessing that if I don't specify a side guard option on the order form, they won't even put the mounting/holding bracket onto the chair (in which case, perhaps I should order a basic aluminum one and hope it's covered by insurance?).

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    Make sure you double check that it will work based on what you plan to buy separately, for example, even a different tire profile can affect you rear seat height and your rear wheel spacing. This is the Aero Z order form.

    To my knowledge, TiLite uses the "Everyday - Standard" Narrow Hub with 1.8" bearing spacing. The "Sport" wide hub has 2.3" bearing spacing. This will affect your chair width and is import to know especially if you swap out wheels.
    I didn't actually pay attention the first time I read through the other thread, because it was a little over my head. Looking at the photos again now though, I think I understand what you mean about the different bearing spacings and all. So, from your blog post, I gather that if I order the default Shadows with 1" spacing, I should be able to replace them with the standard SPOX/LXs and MPEs without a hitch?

    If I went with the sport ones though, I'm not too sure how spacing comes in to play: I understand chair width would increase, but is the spacing concern that there wouldn't actually be enough for the wheels/axles to lock in place? Also, what IS the advantage of a wider hub?
    Last edited by faji_tama; 01-26-2015 at 01:40 AM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    I recently got surelocks, they did not affect my width at all.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  6. #26
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    You are getting another long missive from me...

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    1) Do TiLites come with a horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default, or is that what the 4" deep option on the order forms is for? If I don't select that, does it mean I simply don't have a bar on the back? On my current chair, that's one of the main hold points for people when they lift my chair up/down steps, so it's a pretty important piece. (Although, looking at the owner's manual for the AeroZ, it seems they actually warn against holding on to detachable parts when lifting - and the backrest IS detachable, is it not?)
    TiLites come with the standard horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default. The other options are the 3” deep rigidizer bar or the rounded rigidizer bar (shown on page 10 of the Options Brochure). We got the 3” deep rigidizer bar, which is a no charge option (NCO), because we were getting an ADI solid back and wanted to make sure there was enough room for it with depth adjustments.

    About the documentation, they never really say where they expect the assistant at the rear of the chair to hold onto. They only specifically state not the "upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips". To me the only other logical place to hold onto IS the backrest rigidizer bar. Technically the backrest is a removable (detachable) part, and is how we do stairs also. I posted to the Manufacturer & Vendor Forum (see this post #120) because I would be interested in hearing what they say about this also.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    Has there been a general consensus about the TiLite titanium axles versus the generic Sportaid one on the CC community? I know that video you linked me to previously seemed to suggest the SA ones weren't really quality controlled very well, which makes me a little wary.
    I don't think the video was referring to SportAid axles, because to my knowledge they do not sell titanium axles, only stainless steel. I think the video was referring to Invacare/Top End titanium axles.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    Also, if I do indeed get CF guards separately from ADI or elsewhere, would you recommend I do it through my dealer, or direct with the manufacturer (price wise)? I'm guessing that if I don't specify a side guard option on the order form, they won't even put the mounting/holding bracket onto the chair (in which case, perhaps I should order a basic aluminum one and hope it's covered by insurance?).
    It appears to me that insurance has already approved TiLite CF sideguards. I would ask your dealer about this so you can get whatever you do covered by insurance as much as possible. I'm actually kind of surprised that insurance even approved CF sideguards. For removable sideguards ADI only sells Replacement Stock Sideguards and the hardware for the chair is NOT included (click on one of the photo's). I'm quite sure that TiLite will not include the mounting bracket if you do not order sideguards, so you will be paying $175 just for the aluminum sideguards when all you want is the mounting bracket. I also don't know if you can customize the ADI removable sideguards. Possibly Carbolife sells sideguards with the mounting hardware, but I don't know.

    If it were me, if the dealer can't get you other CF sideguards with mounting hardware, I would get the TiLite CF, because I don't think the differences would be enough for me to want to fork out the entire cost relative to a 30% co-pay. I know that when we bought the ADI folding CF sideguards 1.5 years ago the MSRP was about $400, which is probably about what the dealer would charge, along with the cost of the mounting hardware. You could also try contacting Bike-on (stephen212 is an active and knowledgeable member here who works for them) or SportAid, because they don't list all the sidequard options on their websites.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    I didn't actually pay attention the first time I read through the other thread, because it was a little over my head. Looking at the photos again now though, I think I understand what you mean about the different bearing spacings and all. So, from your blog post, I gather that if I order the default Shadows with 1" spacing, I should be able to replace them with the standard SPOX/LXs and MPEs without a hitch?
    I can understand your confusion. That’s where I was when I started this also. I would be reluctant to 100% say that everything will work for you as it did for us, but assuming 24" wheels, I do not see why it would not. For wheel spacing the hub bearing spacing was .2" less with the Spinergy LX 24” wheels than with the TiLite Shadow 24" wheels. For the 24” Primo Treaded Tires replaced with 24” Schwalbe MPE tires we had no difference in tire profile and it did not affect rear seat height (RSH). The Primo tires are shown as RTR4 in the Options Brochure on page 3.

    I do not know enough about the titanium quick release axles to know if they would be interchangeable or not (for us the stainless steel axles were interchangeable). You will probably need to tighten the axle nut when you swap out to the Spinergy hubs, because although the overall hubshell width of the Spinergy hubs are wider than the Shadow hubs, the bearing spacing is less on the Spinergy hubs than the Shadow hubs. The bearing spacing is what affects wheel spacing. I would go to the parts store and check the measurements for the Quick Release Axles that you might be swapping out. Make sure you click on the PDF because that shows the dimensions.

    Quote Originally Posted by faji_tama View Post
    If I went with the sport ones though, I'm not too sure how spacing comes in to play: I understand chair width would increase, but is the spacing concern that there wouldn't actually be enough for the wheels/axles to lock in place? Also, what IS the advantage of a wider hub?
    I can't tell you what the advantage is of the wider sport hubs, but I assume it is strength. I am quite sure you would have a hard time swapping the Shadow wheels with the wider sports hubs because the bearing spacing is wider with 2.3" bearing spacing. I also don’t think TiLite sells the Spinergy wheels with the wider sport hubs, and consequently a titanium axle for them. If you were to do this, you most likely will need to order axles for the wider sport hubs, which probably means stainless steel. I also do not think you can get D’s Locks for the sports hubs because the spokes are also fatter, but I could be wrong.

    Something important to keep in mind with swapping wheels if you get the D's Locks (probably also SureLocks) is that the Lockrings and Adaptors for the Spinergy wheels are not swappable with Shadow wheels. When you dealer orders D's Locks you tell them what wheels and wheelchair they are for and they send the appropriate hardware. When we need to use the Shadow wheels I mount an extra set of tire wheel locks that we have, or if very temporary, my husband goes without locks. Someday I may get the extra Lockrings and Adaptors for the Shadow wheels, which we will be able to use with the same Locksets and Adaptors that are on the wheelchair. Something else to consider is that your dealer may not want to install hub locks if you buy the wheels somewhere else. They are also self-installable, but make sure your dealer orders them for the correct wheels.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  7. #27
    Senior Member TiLite's Avatar
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    About the documentation, they never really say where they expect the assistant at the rear of the chair to hold onto. They only specifically state not the "upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips". To me the only other logical place to hold onto IS the backrest rigidizer bar. Technically the backrest is a removable (detachable) part, and is how we do stairs also. I posted to the Manufacturer & Vendor Forum (see this post #120) because I would be interested in hearing what they say about this also.

    TiLite does not recommend holding onto the backrest. I'm attaching what is in our owner's manual. I hope this helps. It is important not to hold on to parts that are removable. Use the frame.
    WARNINGS FOR SAFE USE OF YOUR WHEELCHAIR
    A. LEARNING TO DO A “WHEELIE”
    I WARNING
    DO NOT attempt to perform a “wheelie” in your wheelchair because of the dangerous nature of this kind of maneuver.
    TiLite recognizes that some wheelchair users will ignore this warning. If you should choose to ignore this warning,
    you should follow these steps to help learn to do a “wheelie” as safely as possible (but doing a “wheelie” is never
    completely safe and TiLite assumes no responsibility for any injury you may sustain as a result of doing a “wheelie”):
    1. Read and follow the Warning for “WHEELIES” on page 1-9.
    2. NEVER attempt to learn how to do a “wheelie” without the assistance of someone strong enough to catch you
    should you start to tip over (a “spotter”). Your spotter should read and be completely familiar with this entire
    Manual, especially this Warning and the Warning for “WHEELIES” on page 1-9.
    3. Instruct your spotter to stand at the rear of your chair. Your spotter must be agile enough to move with you and
    your chair to prevent a tip-over.
    4. Instruct your spotter to keep his or her hands BENEATH the push handles or backrest rigidizer bar so that he or
    she is ready to catch you if you exceed the balance point of the rear wheels and start to tip over backward.
    5. When your spotter is in position and is ready, place your hands on the forward portion of the handrims. Using the
    handrims, make a quick BACKWARD movement of the rear wheels, quickly followed by a hard FORWARD thrust.
    This will tilt the chair up on the balance point of the rear wheels. DO NOT remove your hands from the handrims
    after either the backward movement or forward thrust so that you can continue to manipulate the rear wheels to
    maintain your balance on the two rear wheels.
    6. Use SMALL movements of the handrims to maintain your balance on the two rear wheels.
    If you ignore these Warnings, you may fall, tip over or lose control of the wheelchair and seriously injure yourself or
    others or damage the wheelchair.TR/YR Owner’s Manual 1-5 OM0007_RevA_TR_YR
    CHAPTER 1: WARNINGS
    B. CLIMBING A CURB OR SINGLE STEP
    I WARNING
    1. NEVER attempt to negotiate a curb or single step without assistance.
    2. Instruct your assistant to stand at the rear of your wheelchair, with the front of the wheelchair facing the obstacle.
    NEVER attempt to negotiate any such obstacle backward.
    3. Instruct your assistant to tilt the chair up on the rear wheels so that the front casters clear the curb or step.
    4. Instruct your assistant to slowly move the chair forward and to gently lower the front casters to the upper level as
    soon as you are sure that they are beyond the edge of the curb or step.
    5. Instruct your assistant to continue to roll the chair forward until the rear wheels contact the face of the curb or
    step.
    6. Instruct your assistant to lift and roll the rear wheels up to the upper level.
    If you ignore these Warnings, you may fall, tip over or lose control of the wheelchair and seriously injure yourself or
    others or damage the wheelchair.
    C. CLIMBING A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
    I WARNING
    DO NOT climb a flight of stairs with the user in the wheelchair.
    However, TiLite recognizes that wheelchair users may, on occasion, have no other choice. Only if you have no
    alternative, you should follow these steps to climb up a flight of stairs.
    1. NEVER attempt to negotiate more than one step unless you have two (2) able-bodied adult assistants.
    2. ALWAYS position the chair and rider facing away from the stairs, with one assistant at the rear (facing away from
    the stairs) and one at the front of the chair (facing the rider).
    3. The assistant at the rear of the chair is in control of this procedure. He or she must tilt the chair back to its balance
    point on the rear wheels. NEVER attempt to lift a wheelchair by lifting on any removable (detachable) parts,
    including upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips.
    4. The second assistant at the front must firmly grasp a non-detachable part of the front frame (but NOT swing-away
    hangers) with both hands and lift the chair up and over one stair at a time.
    5. Each assistant then carefully moves up to the next stair.
    6. Repeat steps 1 through 5 for each stair, until you reach the landing.
    7. When you reach the landing, the assistants should roll the chair backward on the two rear wheels until the front
    casters have cleared the last step, at which point the assistants can gently lower the front casters to the landing.
    If you ignore these Warnings, you may fall, tip over or lose control of the wheelchair and seriously injure yourself or
    others or damage the wheelchair.
    TiLite. The Ultimate Ride.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    You are getting another long missive from me...
    They are much appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    TiLites come with the standard horizontal rigidizer bar on the back rest by default.
    Any idea what the spacing is on the standard bars? I'm assuming it's much less than 3"?

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    About the documentation, they never really say where they expect the assistant at the rear of the chair to hold onto.
    Quote Originally Posted by TiLite View Post
    It is important not to hold on to parts that are removable. Use the frame... 3. The assistant at the rear of the chair is in control of this procedure. He or she must tilt the chair back to its balance
    point on the rear wheels. NEVER attempt to lift a wheelchair by lifting on any removable (detachable) parts,
    including upholstery and removable push handles or push handle grips.
    4. The second assistant at the front must firmly grasp a non-detachable part of the front frame (but NOT swing-away
    hangers) with both hands and lift the chair up and over one stair at a time.
    Yeah elarson, I was thinking the same thing, because I can't think of a single place towards the back that's actually part of the frame.

    I also am having trouble imagining their recommended procedure for climbing stairs. Something like this, where most of the lifting is being done by the person on the lower step? That's not even possible without the person at the back of the chair lifting too, right?

    Name:  10956081_10103868443160703_346145135_n.jpg
Views: 273
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    Not drawn to scale (I was never meant to be an artist haha).

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    I don't think the video was referring to SportAid axles, because to my knowledge they do not sell titanium axles, only stainless steel. I think the video was referring to Invacare/Top End titanium axles.
    Oops, you're right, it was indeed the Invacare ones. But aw bummer, I thought the SA ones were titanium - the page completely fails to mention the material type. So, if I want titanium, TiLite is still going to have to be where I get them huh. (I suspect the Invacare ones are probably the same price anyway?)

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    It appears to me that insurance has already approved TiLite CF sideguards. I would ask your dealer about this so you can get whatever you do covered by insurance as much as possible. I'm actually kind of surprised that insurance even approved CF sideguards. For removable sideguards ADI only sells Replacement Stock Sideguards and the hardware for the chair is NOT included (click on one of the photo's). I'm quite sure that TiLite will not include the mounting bracket if you do not order sideguards, so you will be paying $175 just for the aluminum sideguards when all you want is the mounting bracket. I also don't know if you can customize the ADI removable sideguards. Possibly Carbolife sells sideguards with the mounting hardware, but I don't know.
    Oh yeah huh they did. That fell off my radar because I wouldn't have thought they'd approve the CF guards either. But ah, so your husband actually has non-removeable guards then?

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    I would be reluctant to 100% say that everything will work for you as it did for us, but assuming 24" wheels, I do not see why it would not. For wheel spacing the hub bearing spacing was .2" less with the Spinergy LX 24” wheels than with the TiLite Shadow 24" wheels. For the 24” Primo Treaded Tires replaced with 24” Schwalbe MPE tires we had no difference in tire profile and it did not affect rear seat height (RSH).
    Ah, yeah, I'm actually planning to go with 25" wheels, and thinking of doing 25" Primo Treaded -> 25" MPE tires. I guess I'll have to dig a bit more in to that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    You will probably need to tighten the axle nut when you swap out to the Spinergy hubs, because although the overall hubshell width of the Spinergy hubs are wider than the Shadow hubs, the bearing spacing is less on the Spinergy hubs than the Shadow hubs. The bearing spacing is what affects wheel spacing.
    I THINK I know what you mean by tightening the axle nut: it's the giant nut that's between the inner bearing, screwed on to the camber tube/plug right? And by tighten, do you mean closer to the camber tube, or closer to the bearing? And I'm guessing wheel spacing refers to the space between the bearing and the nut?

    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    the Lockrings and Adaptors for the Spinergy wheels are not swappable with Shadow wheels. When you dealer orders D's Locks you tell them what wheels and wheelchair they are for and they send the appropriate hardware.
    And another thing I wasn't aware of. Thank you!

  9. #29
    This photo is of a used Colours chair I purchased which had hidden damage. Looking at the photo, you might ask how could that be hidden, but believe me the pieces were not separated, and I did not notice. I'm posting because this is what I suspect the type of damage the manufacture is trying to avoid by saying lift by the frame only. This chair had clamp on extension push handles, so that contributed additional torque to the bar. I think from this we should learn if we go against the manu recommendation to grab as close to the weld as possible to prevent any bending and don't use push handles.Name:  broken rigidizer.jpg
Views: 303
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    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  10. #30
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    Ouch, yeah, that'd be pretty brutal if it snapped off mid lift. I wonder how much weight was in the chair over the years to lead to that (I'm about 120lb or so, I think). I've been lifted I'd say, on average, 10-20 times a year in this chair for the past ten years, and the back bar is still holding steady. The part that DID end up cracking was actually at the end of my seat, right before the bend.

    Ever since a friend dropped me (on accident) and ended up snapping my femur a few years ago, I've been wary about letting people me carry me outside my chair.

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