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Thread: Exoskeletons

  1. #21
    These companies are in motion control and other fields. I don't think they would invest in cell technology or so far have chosen not to. They do R&D where it feeds the type of business they do.
    In a perfect world a few thousand emails might influence them but I doubt it. If you were their major stockholder you might sway them. Most make pumps, motors and hydraulic parts so they are not the least bit interested in cellular research. They make stuff that "moves" things like large Caterpillar equipment or micro medical pumps.
    Who would you propose gets reviewed? They are the spenders and not the rehabilitation centers. The rehab folks simply allow patients to trial devices somebody else is paying for.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Skipow View Post
    Here's a link to the annual NIH spending by disease. You can click on the dollar amount to see the specific projects. Paolo, you probaly will go nuts looking at it! By the way, this year $94 million was spent on SCI research by the NIH so $14 million is a huge amount. Considering some of the current, in human, trials cost around $250,000 per person in the U.S.A..

    http://report.nih.gov/categorical_spending.aspx

    As a quad, exoskeletons have a long way to come to work for me, but I definitly wouldn't turn one down if it were financially available to me. In my opinion they will be more applicable for labor jobs for the general population that require high physical stress. I see some merit in SCI rehab with exoskeletons but there should be a minimal amount should be spent developing these for SCI at this point in time. I can see exoskeleton companies using SCI research funds to launch their product and cover R&D costs, then ditching our population when they try to be profitable to a mass market.
    Thanks for the link!

    I am happy to see you know about that too! Hope more & more people will read, stop and think!

    I actually knew about it... never ask a question if you don't know already the answer

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by c473s View Post
    These companies are in motion control and other fields. I don't think they would invest in cell technology or so far have chosen not to. They do R&D where it feeds the type of business they do.
    In a perfect world a few thousand emails might influence them but I doubt it. If you were their major stockholder you might sway them. Most make pumps, motors and hydraulic parts so they are not the least bit interested in cellular research. They make stuff that "moves" things like large Caterpillar equipment or micro medical pumps.
    Who would you propose gets reviewed? They are the spenders and not the rehabilitation centers. The rehab folks simply allow patients to trial devices somebody else is paying for.
    Ok, but here we have $ 14 millions public funding from the Brazil government that went to this stuff. I don't know how much the Brazil government has invested in cure research but I suspect is much less than $14 millions.
    Then in the US we have also public money funding ekso bionics studies etc...

    If it was just private funding going to this it would be almost ok for me.

    BTW if you want to influence corporate's inveting directions you may want to follow analist's articles for investors (like on Seeking Alpha) and add your comments on the articles.

    Did you note that InVivo has dropped the Hydrogel to refocus on the solid scaffold? The reason of that seem to be the fact that the solid scaffold is more likely to be applicable to the chronic SCI population (which rapresent a much bigger profit opportunity than acute SCI alone).
    It is interesting to see how there seem to be a direct realtion between the comments to the analist articles & the share prize.

    I often partecipate to the comments as you may imagine.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  4. #24
    The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom
    --General George Patton

    Complex problems need to be solved collectively.
    ––Paul Nussbaum
    usc87.blogspot.com

  5. #25
    I wish the NIH spent more. The cellular research I see has for the most part been funded by big pharma companies, the California fund or venture capital investors. The Geron trial that Biotime is bringing back not too far out is a prime example. If our government would fund at larger levels more progress might occur. The same opportunities for governmental investment exists in the European, South American, Asian and Middle Eastern countries. This is a global issue yet getting any of our nations to spend more is a huge task and getting them to cooperate in research more nearly impossible. For me pushing any local and national levers that appear makes sense.

    I also recognize that our SCI population is very small in the larger picture so drawing attention to it has to be pursued when recognized personalities either have injuries or their families do and they add their voice to the cause. The loss of Christopher Reeve was huge whether you believe in all the pursuits of the foundation that remains or not. A former Olympic gold medalist from the 1996 games was injured this past week on an ATV and may be another voice if she so decides to add her voice. A truly frustrating piece over the years is our media rarely puts our stories out if they consider us "famous". I would say each of our stories is unique, moving and worthy of moving the bar but they have not.

    I am 40 years into my injury and try to move a brick every time I can.

  6. #26
    If given a choice I would rather have bowel and bladder return than walk. I don't see anywhere that there is a choice between exo and bowel/bladder (I don't even care about sex at this point), if there is sign me up for bowel bladder and I will go firebomb Esko. But that isn't a real choice is it? I spend a ton of money on mobility equipment that isn't particularly useful to anything but making it easier for me to get around, Icon, ZX1, Topolino wheels. Doesn't help the "community" any (debatable btw, a healthy set of businesses devoted to mobility is a great thing). Should I just buy the cheapest equipment possible in the hope that the money I don't spend magically goes to an imaginary cure?

    Yep, I am a para and an exo wont help quads. But if in 5 years I can spend 20K and have a 1 to 2 mile walking range? That would be awesome and here is the thing, the technology to make that possible is pretty much done. Show me in 5 years where there is a medical treatment that will return my B&B function, much less one that wont happen if people make cool exoskeletons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tayberry View Post
    t8burst - why invest in something that doesn't address bowel/bladder/sexual function? What about tetraplegics? It seems really silly to support an intervention which offers so little to the community.
    I agree that there's no such thing as bad publicity - I just feel that we should be using the publicity to get more support for regenerative medicine (the stuff that's actually going to cure paralysis).
    Also, it's hyperbolic to suggest, as fact, that Exo will help us more in the next decade than any 'cure'. I'm assuming you are referring to paraplegics only? A lot of paralysed people I know don't want help with robotic walking, they want help with bladder/bowel/sexual function, pain, sensation etc etc so I really don't see how the Exo is going to help with any of that lot in the next decade. But then, it's not designed to help with any of that lot, which again begs the question of why this intervention is being supported when it offers so little?
    My intention here is not to be antagonistic. Robotics are really popular right now and people are of course entitled to support them. However, when the dust settles and people realise that they want actual return of function, the fight for regenerative medicine will still be here as it is the only intervention that will eventually repair the spinal cord.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Do you know the total amout US invest in general SCI research?
    And how much of the total goes to cure research relevant to get us out of W/C?

    I don't think you know these numbers...
    I know the numbers and they are pathetic. We sure as hell aren't going to make them bigger by taking something popular like robotics and attacking it. People will go, "man try and help those SCI guys and all they do is complain, I am giving my money to the polar bears". You keep positing this is a zero sum game, and that is incorrect.

    Then don't you agree with Wise that in a few years he believes we can fix someone so no one would know you had sci?
    Paolo
    Never seen him say that, but you know that and just like to troll.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    Ok, but here we have $ 14 millions public funding from the Brazil government that went to this stuff. I don't know how much the Brazil government has invested in cure research but I suspect is much less than $14 millions.
    Then in the US we have also public money funding ekso bionics studies etc...

    If it was just private funding going to this it would be almost ok for me.

    BTW if you want to influence corporate's inveting directions you may want to follow analist's articles for investors (like on Seeking Alpha) and add your comments on the articles.

    Did you note that InVivo has dropped the Hydrogel to refocus on the solid scaffold? The reason of that seem to be the fact that the solid scaffold is more likely to be applicable to the chronic SCI population (which rapresent a much bigger profit opportunity than acute SCI alone).
    It is interesting to see how there seem to be a direct realtion between the comments to the analist articles & the share prize.

    I often partecipate to the comments as you may imagine.

    Paolo
    I do not favor governmental funding for ekso or any other skeletal device. Ekso was begun with private money and somehow this study got fnding. The origination for the skeleton frames did begin in DARPA for soldiers to carry large loads into battle and other tasks then the private sector followed for SCI (Israel funded their version called Rewalk as well). Invivo is an interesting company and and I am slightly more encouraged that their new direction is more realistically steered than it was in the past. I am not a fan of hyping anything for stock price. If a product is good investors will follow and I think the solid scaffold may well hold better promise. I have no evidence to back that up other than what I read and hear from other researchers.

  9. #29
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    Perhaps this thread shouldn't have been posted in the "Cure" forum, as it's definitely not?!?

    Whilst I'm in agreement with preferring a cure to B&B issues to walking, the effect of seeing my son getting himself standing (in a Levo standing chair) was very emotional (in a good way) for both my wife and I. So I do see that there are benefits to an Exo (or similar) that may not be immediately apparent.

    In terms of getting the message out there (for a real cure), I am personally impressed with the fact that Red Bull is taking a great interest in the subject. Their recent Wings for Life World Run was a great start, and they have already set the date for next year's run. Everybody I know who was associated with the recent run is keen to do it again next year, which only means it is going to get bigger and bigger, along with the message. Whether the Wings for Life SCI work is aiming for the optimum cure/method I do not know (I do not know enough about the subject), but I do believe that the publicity they generate can only be positive.
    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

  10. #30
    In vivos hydrogel is still an interesting product, I read something that cells and enzymes can be placed in the hydrogel and manipulated to release at certain points and time. What was the level of injury for the Olympian, I have a feeling she will not be as focused on cure research but more so on the frontline of inspiration that there is life after spinal cord injury, which is a encouraging statement to some, but with her potential influence would be truly unfortunate. Who knows what will happen though. Considering high cervical injuries are for some reason statistically becoming more abundant in my opinion absolutely none, zero funding related to spinal cord injury should The directed towards exoskeletons. As for this. Allusion of advocacy I don't see it, if anything it just increases the ignorance of higher injuries with no function above the waist, and insinuates the problem is being solved, thereby also increasing the ignorance that the only problem we face is not walking. Which means they really don't understand how bad we suffer, so is it that big of a deal when comparing other issues. I think the best advocacy we could do would get everyone on this forum that's interested to start an online and on paper petition to put together, get our friends and families to sign then throw over 100,000 signatures from all over the world at the UN, specifically for funding regenerative therapies to cure paralysis. A movement like that advocacy would come to us. Will something like that ever happened not likely. I hope so though, anyone want to start let me know.

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