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Thread: Advice for best shock absorbing outdoor rear tires

  1. #91
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I got that covered rlmtrhmiles, but thanks.

    I measure only based on ETRTO/ISO designations and calculate in milimeters, because you really can't go by inch designations. I wish they would just scrap them, which I hope they do in the new version of ISO 5775 targeted for publication in 2015.

    I'm now calculating circumferences and height with different size tires and rims. Not fun....

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmtrhmiles View Post
    BE ABSOLUTELY SURE of your rim and rite size. 540 <> 24". It will not fit. I did not look at all responses here. I DID once buy 24" all season bike tires they were going to fit on my, I think "24" rim. It does NOT WORK. I had I think the 24".1.95 mountain tires originally. I swear we are intentionally screwed to limit out choice.
    Last edited by elarson; 06-11-2014 at 02:54 PM.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  2. #92
    Just for reference, I have been running the 54-540 Kenda Nevegal tires on 24" Spinergy SPOX wheels for a little over a year now on my outdoor chair. I use them mainly when I take my kids to soccer, softball, working in the backyard, etc. They really float over the uneven terrain. I haven't had any issues sinking into the soft stuff like I do with my Marathon Plus tires on Spinergy LX rims. I will say that the Kenda 54-540 tires will give lots of shock absorption at lower pressures. I usually run mine around 20-30 psi. They don't roll very fast compared to the Marathon's, but that is not why I bought them.

    They do tear up your hands if you don't use gloves. The hand rims are almost useless because the tires are so fat. I know that is not really a concern for your intended use. The tires have a lot of sidewall flex at lower pressures. When I make quick turns, the side knobbies rub my side guards.

    I also noticed a huge difference in RSH when I use them. I still switch between my Marathon's and the Kenda's so I have adjusted my chair to accommodate both sets of rims and tires.

  3. #93
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    Exactly what 2TiRods is saying. If you are going to transfer the energy from each mush into the tire pressure, it is lost there. I have the same Kenda setup, but run those tires ate 45 PSI. I primarily use those tires for y weightlifting indoors and going to mailbox outdoor. Outdoor is extremely steep hill driveway. I end up "spinning" tires going up the hill and can end up sliding down the hill while holding wheel from spinning. I do play a lot with where my butt is sitting on the chair to help this, but even that is crazy. You do lose a ton of energy absorbed by the tire instead of that energy transferred to the ground. Personally, I hated the energy loss.

  4. #94
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    rlm, she wants the tires to use with a firefly power bike attachement, there will be absolutely no self pushing.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  5. #95
    Senior Member robotnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    I'm now calculating circumferences and height with different size tires and rims. Not fun....
    I don't know exactly why you want to know the circumference ?
    For the height, I understand, but be careful ! The height isn't very accurate, it may change (for the same rim) due to the weight of the rider, the pressure, the tire pattern… I think here, you can't control all theses parameters ! But anyway, there will not have a HUGE difference…
    For exemple: I have a set of 47-507 Shwalbe Marathon Plus for everyday use, and also a second pair of wheels for muddy trails, with 47-507 Shwalbe Land Cruiser. They DON'T have the same outside diameter ! The difference is not obvious, not enough to change all my settings… but the brakes doesn't apply firmly enough to work when I switch from MP to LC.
    Last edited by robotnik; 06-12-2014 at 05:45 PM.
    C6-7 since mid 2002, no hand control nor triceps.
    my website & my job (in France): Accessibility advisor www.acceslibre.eu
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  6. #96
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Still, all information is good to know when weighing things up. I am sure there will be a time that my husband needs to propel, or I am pushing him up some hill that I say "hummm, I remember reading that".

    I think this is a good thread, not only for our requirements, but also others looking to swap wheels to either off-road or balloon tires. I'm learning a lot from it, along with my own research. It's much appreciated, and even if something does not fit our requirements, it might fit someone elses.

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    rlm, she wants the tires to use with a firefly power bike attachement, there will be absolutely no self pushing.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  7. #97
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Oops, that was a mistake about circumference -- I meant diameter. And I totally understand what you are saying about being able to make a useful calculation. It's pretty much impossible.

    Still, I wanted to get an idea, to see where I should invest my efforts and our budget. I think I am quite sure that I want to save up for some decent 507 rims. Most of the assembled kits look like a trade-off in everything. I remember liking to lace up a wheel a long time ago, so maybe I will give it a go over the winter. Since I am on the topic I wanted to research it enough to understand as much as I could, and I think I got that far. Until then, I think we will get the Kenda Kobra's.

    I've also documented a lot of stuff on our website so I can come back to it later. It's a bit of a mess, but perhaps it helps others looking to see some examples. I've tried to include all of the suggestions from this thread, along with some other threads about off-road tires. It will be a work-in-progress for some time to come...

    I made some rough calculations of the outside wheel diameter ⌀ for knowing how much different rims and tire size will affect the rear seat height compared to our Schwalbe Marathon Plus 25-540 (24 x 1.0″). The examples are a random selection of tires that we are considering. I used a simple calculation, because tire sizes vary drastically dependent on many variables, but this gives an idea for anyone interested who does not want to wade through what I put on our website:


    • Wheel diameter (⌀): = (rim diameter) + (tire diameter * 2)


    [TABLE="width: 845"]
    [TR]
    [TD]Type[/TD]
    [TD]Tire ⌀ (ISO)[/TD]
    [TD]Rim ⌀ (ISO)
    [/TD]
    [TD]Wheel ⌀ mm[/TD]
    [TD]Example[/TD]
    [TD]Difference ⌀ mm[/TD]
    [TD]Difference ⌀ inch[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]25" WC / 26 " MTB[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]47[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]559[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]653[/TD]
    [TD]Schwalbe Marathon Plus 47-559 (26 x 1.75)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]63.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.48[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]25" WC / 26 " MTB[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]559[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]659[/TD]
    [TD]Schwable Big Apple 50-559's (25 x 2.0")[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]69.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.72[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]25" WC / 26 " MTB[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]54[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]559[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]667[/TD]
    [TD]Continental Town & Country 47-559 (26 x 2.10 Inch) [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]77.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3.03[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]25" WC / 26 " MTB[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]55[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]559[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]669[/TD]
    [TD]Schwalbe Big Apple Plus 55-559 (26 x 2.15 Inch)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]79.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3.11[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" WC[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]25[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]540[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]590[/TD]
    [TD]Schwalbe Marathon Plus 25-540 (24 x 1.0″)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.00[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" WC[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]30[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]540[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]600[/TD]
    [TD]Schwable Airborne 30-540 (24 x 1.20 inch)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.39[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" WC[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]47[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]540[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]634[/TD]
    [TD]Rubena V41 Walrus 47-540 (24 x 1.75")[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]44.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.73[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" WC[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]540[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]640[/TD]
    [TD]Kenda Kobra K885 50-540 (24 x 2.0″)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]50.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.97[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" WC[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]54[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]540[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]648[/TD]
    [TD]Kenda Nevegal K1010 54-540 (24 x 2.1")[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]58.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.28[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" MTB/BMX[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]47[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]507[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]601[/TD]
    [TD]Maxxis Holy Roller 47-507 (24 x 1.75 inch)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]11.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.43[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" MTB/BMX[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]507[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]607[/TD]
    [TD]Schwable Big Apple 50-507's (24 x 2.0″)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]17.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.67[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" MTB/BMX[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]55[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]507[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]617[/TD]
    [TD]Schwable Big Apple 55-507 (24 x 2.15 Inch)[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]27.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.06[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]24" MTB/BMX[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]60[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]507[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]627[/TD]
    [TD]Schwalbe Crazy Bob 60-507 (24 x 2.35) [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]37.00[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]1.46[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    Quote Originally Posted by robotnik View Post
    I don't know exactly why you want to know the circumference ?
    For the height, I understand, but be careful ! The height isn't very accurate, it may change (for the same rim) due to the weight of the rider, the pressure, the tire pattern… I think here, you can't control all theses parameters ! But anyway, there will not have a HUGE difference…
    For exemple: I have a set of 47-507 Shwalbe Marathon Plus for everyday use, and also a second pair of wheels for muddy trails, with 47-507 Shwalbe Land Cruiser. They DON'T have the same outside diameter ! The difference is not obvious, not enough to change all my settings… but the brakes doesn't apply firmly enough to work when I split from MP to LC.
    Last edited by elarson; 06-12-2014 at 05:17 PM. Reason: It is not liking my table, and then fixing character conversion errors.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  8. #98
    Senior Member NW-Will's Avatar
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    I acknowledge using a wider rim would make a difference, but not enough to justify the new wheels.
    As we're using the volume of air to compress to make some kind of smoothing effect to our ride; out of curiosity an approximate comparison of volumes.

    25-559 on a 25 wide rim = 0.3 Liter - 0.63 US pint
    60-559 on a 25 wide rim = 2.0 Liter - 4.23 US pint
    60-559 on a 60 wide rim = 2.7 Liter - 5.70 US pint

    Wasn't willing to go to the cost of a new set of wheels for this experiment, I anted up CNC'ing a set of custom axle clamps so I could adjust the geometry appropriately.





    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Seating the Big Apples on 1" rims instead of 2" rims could very easily make a big change in how they perform. If I was going to spend any money on this project, I'd call someone at Schwalbe for an opinion if the rim width will make much of a difference for the apples cushioning.

  9. #99
    Senior Member NW-Will's Avatar
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    elarson.

    just out of curiosity again.. compared your chart to real life.

    Measured my 60-559 on 25mm wide rim, gave me 680mm outside tire diameter.


    • Wheel diameter (⌀): = (rim diameter) + (tire diameter * 2) = 679mm



  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by NW-Will View Post
    I acknowledge using a wider rim would make a difference, but not enough to justify the new wheels.
    As we're using the volume of air to compress to make some kind of smoothing effect to our ride; out of curiosity an approximate comparison of volumes.

    25-559 on a 25 wide rim = 0.3 Liter - 0.63 US pint
    60-559 on a 25 wide rim = 2.0 Liter - 4.23 US pint
    60-559 on a 60 wide rim = 2.7 Liter - 5.70 US pint...clip...
    Your calcs show that the wider rim gives 35 percent more volume for compression of the low pressure, and the side walls would be taller too for a little more travel distance. I think 35 percent more is significant.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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