Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Off Topic Discussion

  1. #11
    The most experienced SCI Researchers/Dr's in the world decided it was time to begin testing the most promising therapies in chronic human SCI. According to you, the ChinaSCINet Phase II Study should not have been done. It's clear by what has already been revealed here that they made the right call. But we should wait until the paper is published before we debate.
    Last edited by Jim; 05-22-2014 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    The most experienced SCI Researchers/Dr's in the world decided it was time to begin testing the most promising therapies in chronic human SCI. According to you, the ChinaSCINet Phase II Study should not have been done. It's clear by what has already been revealed here that they made the right call. But we should wait until the paper is published before we debate.

    Nothing is clear yet.

    You don't find it odd that there are no reputable chronic, complete rat studies after all these years? Yet there are dozens in acute and or incomplete. I find it very odd.

    If you're sick of being a quad, the treatment that will cure you, or anywhere close to cure, has not been discovered yet.

  3. #13
    If establishing safety of the surgical procedure to inject cells were the only outcome of these trials they were well worth it. CN102a found that a six-week course of lithium is very effective in eliminating severe neuropathic pain. This is now being confirmed in a phase II. Countless other things have been learned, and the cherry on top is the outcomes that will soon be reported.

    None of these gains would have been made if they had not gone forward in humans. People are suffering and dying every day because of SCI, the most promising therapies must be tested now.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lunasicc42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lutz, Fl USA*********C456
    Posts
    2,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    If establishing safety of the surgical procedure to inject cells were the only outcome of these trials they were well worth it. CN102a found that a six-week course of lithium is very effective in eliminating severe neuropathic pain. This is now being confirmed in a phase II. Countless other things have been learned, and the cherry on top is the outcomes that will soon be reported.

    None of these gains would have been made if they had not gone forward in humans. People are suffering and dying every day because of SCI, the most promising therapies must be tested now.
    If you would ,please define "soon " Days ?Weeks ?Months ?
    "That's not smog! It's SMUG!! " - randy marsh, southpark

    "what???? , you don't 'all' wear a poop sac?.... DAMNIT BONNIE, YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THE POOP SAC!!!! "


    2010 SCINet Clinical Trial Support Squad Member
    Please join me and donate a dollar a day at http://justadollarplease.org and copy and paste this message to the bottom of your signature

  5. #15
    You didn't answer my question.

    I have heard of no useful gains so far. CPG activation is meaningless without sensation and voluntary control. The last post from Dr. Young about evidence of bowel and bladder recovery is interesting. I wonder what evidence? Is he taking the patient's word for it? Because I have seen patients talk of recovery after foot rubs and stem cell scams in 2nd world countries. It was all in their head.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    You didn't answer my question.

    I have heard of no useful gains so far. CPG activation is meaningless without sensation and voluntary control. The last post from Dr. Young about evidence of bowel and bladder recovery is interesting. I wonder what evidence? Is he taking the patient's word for it? Because I have seen patients talk of recovery after foot rubs and stem cell scams in 2nd world countries. It was all in their head.


    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    CPG activation is meaningless without sensation and voluntary control.
    You've known this whole time activating the CPG is possible in humans with chronic complete spinal cord injury????????? Why didn't you tell us?!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Tbone57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    157
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    If establishing safety of the surgical procedure to inject cells were the only outcome of these trials they were well worth it. CN102a found that a six-week course of lithium is very effective in eliminating severe neuropathic pain. This is now being confirmed in a phase II. Countless other things have been learned, and the cherry on top is the outcomes that will soon be reported.

    None of these gains would have been made if they had not gone forward in humans. People are suffering and dying every day because of SCI, the most promising therapies must be tested now.

    Jim is there any more current info on the lithium treatment?

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by crabbyshark View Post
    You've known this whole time activating the CPG is possible in humans with chronic complete spinal cord injury????????? Why didn't you tell us?!
    a) I was saying "meaningless" in terms of being useful. If you would have quoted my entire post that would be clear. Didn’t Dr. Young have trouble with patients in the trial not “walking” at home after therapy ended? They neglected it so much that they lost the ability to “walk”?

    Dr. Young has said, “It is interesting that a number of them went back home for 6 months and did little or no walking, and lost their ability to walk. However, if they came back to the hospital, they regained the walking only after a relatively short period of practice.” He also said “What can I say? We had all hoped that people would continue walking when they go home. But, I guess that they did not. That is why we are thinking of having the subjects stay for a year in the walking program.”

    That doesn’t seem to be very useful. I know if I ever regained the ability to walk (no quotes) in a useful manner, that I would not go home and never walk.

    b) It seems as if Asia A patients regaining CPG is not entirely new. I remember Jim saying that 25% of those who had untethering and 6-6-6 at the Chinese center recovered CPG These are patients outside of the scinet trials. They were before the trials started. I think the post was deleted. But, Dr. Young says “In my observations of chronic ASIA A patients who have had no untethering surgery and no cell transplant, few (probably <10%) recover to KLS IV. The question that we posed to the Kunming group was how many subjects who had untethering alone showed improved walking. They have seen patients get to KLS IV after untethering surgery. They told us that they have untethered and trained 300 subjects. They are collecting that data for us now."

    So the Kunming Group has seen multiple cases of Asia A’s recovering their CPG with untethering surgery alone and no UCB, before the trial. Yes, it appears as if the frequency of patients recovering their CPG (75%) has risen substantially with UCB, but qualitatively, there is little difference. Of course, my opinion can change when the evidence of bladder & bowel recovery is released.
    Last edited by Nowhere Man; 05-25-2014 at 04:14 PM.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by lunasicc42 View Post
    If you would, please define "soon " Days ?Weeks ?Months ?
    Months

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    You didn't answer my question.

    I have heard of no useful gains so far. CPG activation is meaningless without sensation and voluntary control. The last post from Dr. Young about evidence of bowel and bladder recovery is interesting. I wonder what evidence? Is he taking the patient's word for it? Because I have seen patients talk of recovery after foot rubs and stem cell scams in 2nd world countries. It was all in their head.
    I did answer, with my first sentence. These Dr's, Researchers, and Clinicians knew what they were doing when they went ahead with these trials. Many have decades of experience to make such a call.

    No useful gains? 75% of ASIA A's walking with minimal assistance, some have even surpassed KLS IV. Return of function in chronic ASIA A's is a massive result. Maybe you are just waiting to see the data but you seem to suggest that unless clinical trial participants are returned to normal, the trial was a waste of time and money.

    Changes in bowel/bladder were documented in the data collection at different time points.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone57 View Post
    Jim is there any more current info on the lithium treatment?
    CN302 Lithium for Neuropathic Pain - This double-blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial was to enroll 60 subjects. They are presently just shy of 30 and half of those patients are reporting that their pain is gone. This is great news.

Similar Threads

  1. Interesting discussion in this topic
    By MeLindaLee in forum Recreation, Sports, Travel, & Hobbies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-27-2006, 09:16 AM
  2. Interesting topic of discussion at NM on China
    By Curt Leatherbee in forum Life
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 10-05-2003, 07:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •