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Thread: Paralysed patients regain voluntary movement with spinal stimulation

  1. #171
    This device has been around a long time. Of course there is risk. It is a device surgically implanted on the spinal cord. The thing is, if done correctly it has a potential to improve what seems to be a vast majority of our population. If I had it done, I'd make sure I was getting a well experienced surgeon.

    There is already a transcutaneous device for epidural stimulation made for testing before surgical implantation on the market for pain management. I think Dr. Burdick's video from CALTECH explains that it improved high performance, able bodied, athletes with informally.

    http://neurorecoverytechnologies.com/press.html

    Also, I read something about cochlear implants promoting audio nerves with gene therapy. This is similar to our issue, so I'd speculate that this should help us. Just a bit of interesting news.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news...prove-hearing/

    I'm really curious/ excited what is going on out of UCLA with the 17 or so patients that have tried epidural stimulation out of the Edgerton Lab.
    Last edited by Skipow; 04-29-2014 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Web links

  2. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by George78 View Post
    It is clear to me that it is definitively not a good idea to go for such risky surgery..
    Anyway, I guess a company called NeuroEnabling Technologies inc is developping a transcutaneous device. That means no surgeries as the stimulation is passing through the skin, am I correct ??..
    If I understand correctly, two clinical trials are on their way, one for the quads http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01906424 and one for the lombosacral injuries http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01949285
    What do we know about that transcutaneous device ??..
    Thanks
    George
    From a marketing perspective I think they need to come up with a transcutaneous e-stim that can cost around $10 000 to make lots of money out of this stuff.
    This way 99% of the SCI people will get it (in US and Europe) even if just for "wellness".
    If there are good MKT people behind this I expect that to happen.

    As an example, in the case of Eksobionics I think they didn't have good MKT people as they didn't realize there wasn't a market for the product/cost they want to sell... or maybe is more correct to say that they don't have a product that meet the needs of the market.
    If the Eksoskeleton would cost $10 000 they would sell lots of it even if it is nearly useless. If it were more useful it could cost 20/30K, but that's not the case.

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  3. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Skipow View Post
    This device has been around a long time. Of course there is risk. It is a device surgically implanted on the spinal cord. The thing is, if done correctly it has a potential to improve what seems to be a vast majority of our population. If I had it done, I'd make sure I was getting a well experienced surgeon.

    There is already a transcutaneous device for epidural stimulation made for testing before surgical implantation on the market for pain management. I think Dr. Burdick's video from CALTECH explains that it improved high performance, able bodied, athletes with informally.

    http://neurorecoverytechnologies.com/press.html

    Also, I read something about cochlear implants promoting audio nerves with gene therapy. This is similar to our issue, so I'd speculate that this should help us. Just a bit of interesting news.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news...prove-hearing/

    I'm really curious/ excited what is going on out of UCLA with the 17 or so patients that have tried epidural stimulation out of the Edgerton Lab.

    Skipow, thanks for informing but both Dr. Burdick and Edgerton's works are involving patients in a spinal surgery to put the electrodes on site. Although results are amazing, I personally will not involve myself in such surgery because I find we're on uncertainty results..

  4. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    From a marketing perspective I think they need to come up with a transcutaneous e-stim that can cost around $10 000 to make lots of money out of this stuff.
    This way 99% of the SCI people will get it (in US and Europe) even if just for "wellness".
    If there are good MKT people behind this I expect that to happen.

    As an example, in the case of Eksobionics I think they didn't have good MKT people as they didn't realize there wasn't a market for the product/cost they want to sell... or maybe is more correct to say that they don't have a product that meet the needs of the market.
    If the Eksoskeleton would cost $10 000 they would sell lots of it even if it is nearly useless. If it were more useful it could cost 20/30K, but that's not the case.

    Paolo
    Paolo, they will have to pay me to wear an Eksoskeleton..
    Anyway I'm curious to know what transcutaneous device NeuroEnabling Technologies is using for their trials..
    As you mentioned, I'm totally ready to spend $10.000 to get that transcutaneous e stim home and begin to use it to stimulate my spinal cord..
    I'd like to know more about the device NET is using, I don't get how the electricity is getting through skin, muscles, bone of the vertebra to finally reach and stimulate the spinal cord.. I guess the input of electricity will be tremendous and burn skin, may be it will be better and less expensive to directly plug my 2 big toes in the power outlet..

  5. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by crabbyshark View Post
    Interesting that he no longer leaks. Is that a permanent change or is it more a left over temporary effect after having the device turned on for a while?
    I interpreted it as an effect that exists when the device is off based on the strengthening of muscles when the device is on. Like his muscles are stronger because he can work them out when the device is on and thus the benefit is leftover

  6. #176

  7. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by rioderbi View Post
    I interpreted it as an effect that exists when the device is off based on the strengthening of muscles when the device is on. Like his muscles are stronger because he can work them out when the device is on and thus the benefit is leftover
    It's been said primitive functions like breathing and bladder function "really, really" want to come back. You're probably correct but it would be interesting to know for sure.

  8. #178
    Paolo, I'm curious what current potential methods of treatment do you support? Please don't take this as a critical question, I know that you are very aware of research and utilize the scientific method ? but what's top on your list?

  9. #179
    So they are funded and approved for 8 more patients but have they started recruiting yet or even said what the inclusion criteria is?

  10. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrington314mx View Post
    So they are funded and approved for 8 more patients but have they started recruiting yet or even said what the inclusion criteria is?
    I imagine the 8 have been selected but that can be asked next month... Four of them will be the same as the first four as closely as possible (age, time since injury, etc.). The other four will be tested for response to epidural stimulation on cardio function. This comes from one of the first four patients, Andrew Maes, that had blood pressure issues related to autonomic dysreflexia (AD). When the stim was on his blood pressure normalized.

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