Page 3 of 44 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 432

Thread: Epidural Stimulation Future Trials and Commercial Planning

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    ...

    In the grand scheme of curing SCI, FES and the Lokomat have not been massive successes. I agree they are small steps forward...they are small pieces of the puzzle, and I think FES especially plays much more of a role in keeping people healthy than it does in recovery. Epidural stimulation has been shown to elicit muscle activity, enable voluntary standing, enable voluntary control of muscles below injury, and return bowel, bladder, sexual, and temperature regulation function in chronic, complete humans. Compared to any other therapy or method that has been tested in chronic, complete humans, epidural stimulation has been the most successful in improving function. So, I consider it a massive success. Even if epidural stimulation never allows people with SCI to progress past what we have already found, it would still allow for massive improvements in the lives of most people with SCI.

    By the logic of trying to manage expectations, we should just say everything is going to be a flop, so that way nobody ever gets their hopes up for anything. One of the problems with this way of thinking is that everyone will think everything will be a flop and a waste of money and time, and nobody will want to research anything. That is my biggest issue with your way of thinking here. You seem to want to discourage any research that won't turn SCI people into able-bodied people instantly, in one surgery or procedure. It's not going to be that simple.
    When you say return bowel, bladder and sexual functions people likely get the idea they restored these funtions to normal. This is not true as far as I know and the returns have not been objectvely evaluted. These reports of improvments are anecdotal as what you hear from people who got unproven therapies around the world. That is when I suggest to "keep calm"

    BTW, personally I have had some small spontaneous improvments in B&B over the years and I hear that is rather common. In my case I have recovered a better feeling of B&B and that helps preventing accidents.

    I agree that I am being very negative which I don't like at all, but it's your fault (LOL!) because I have to ballance your excess of optimism

    Paolo
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    I am just saying that adding Ch'ase to Epi-Stim you can have 3 basic results:
    1) better recovery than Epi-Stim alone
    2) same recovery
    3) worse recovery

    My prediction is that more likely there will be the same recovery, but I have no real scientific evidence on which base my prediction so I am curious to see what will come out of the combination.
    Also Epi-Stim alone will be a flop in the end as the recovery I have seen so far is very hyped as in reality it seems very modest to me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykUMNi172Ag

    Paolo
    Every single thing that anyone will ever try, ever, will have those three results...worse, no change, or better. So that is kind of a moot point to make.

    As far as epi-stim alone, I don't really see how you can say return of voluntary motor control and non-assisted standing (not counting the need to hold on to something for balance) is "modest" results. What therapy exists now that provides better results in chronic, ASIA A humans? Those seem like pretty substantial results compared to everything in history to me.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by paolocipolla View Post
    When you say return bowel, bladder and sexual functions people likely get the idea they restored these funtions to normal. This is not true as far as I know and the returns have not been objectvely evaluted. These reports of improvments are anecdotal as what you hear from people who got unproven therapies around the world. That is when I suggest to "keep calm"

    BTW, personally I have had some small spontaneous improvments in B&B over the years and I hear that is rather common. In my case I have recovered a better feeling of B&B and that helps preventing accidents.

    I agree that I am being very negative which I don't like at all, but it's your fault (LOL!) because I have to ballance your excess of optimism

    Paolo
    You are right that these functions were not objectively measured, and that published reports are in fact anecdotal. But, it has been anecdotally reported, at least for Rob Summers, that bowel, bladder, sexual, and temperature regulation function were all returned to normal. The fact that these reports come along with objectively measured data for other functions, like neurophysiological measurements of his movement functions (which you personally often discredit other studies for not having), I think makes them more believable. And if anything, it warrants further investigation.

    I don't really understand why you think my optimism is excessive. I never said epidural stim alone will cure SCI. I think the results it has gotten so far have been robust, and I think it could be an important piece of the cure puzzle. I don't think this is excessively optimistic. You, on the other hand, seek to discourage any and all research that doesn't promise a full regenerated spinal cord in one shot. That setting the bar too high.

    You are a vocal, well known advocate for an SCI cure, who has an SCI. The problem is that when you instantly shoot down and discredit every single study and researcher that comes along that genuinely tries or wants to help the cure movement, the general public thinks that all people with SCIs don't want a cure, and no research gets funded. I don't see how that helps the cure movement.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    You are right that these functions were not objectively measured, and that published reports are in fact anecdotal. But, it has been anecdotally reported, at least for Rob Summers, that bowel, bladder, sexual, and temperature regulation function were all returned to normal. The fact that these reports come along with objectively measured data for other functions, like neurophysiological measurements of his movement functions (which you personally often discredit other studies for not having), I think makes them more believable. And if anything, it warrants further investigation.

    I don't really understand why you think my optimism is excessive. I never said epidural stim alone will cure SCI. I think the results it has gotten so far have been robust, and I think it could be an important piece of the cure puzzle. I don't think this is excessively optimistic. You, on the other hand, seek to discourage any and all research that doesn't promise a full regenerated spinal cord in one shot. That setting the bar too high.

    You are a vocal, well known advocate for an SCI cure, who has an SCI. The problem is that when you instantly shoot down and discredit every single study and researcher that comes along that genuinely tries or wants to help the cure movement, the general public thinks that all people with SCIs don't want a cure, and no research gets funded. I don't see how that helps the cure movement.
    I think it has been a healty discussion and I hope time will show I have been too negative.

    Paolo
    Last edited by paolocipolla; 03-08-2014 at 11:41 AM.
    In God we trust; all others bring data. - Edwards Deming

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    You are right that these functions were not objectively measured, and that published reports are in fact anecdotal. But, it has been anecdotally reported, at least for Rob Summers, that bowel, bladder, sexual, and temperature regulation function were all returned to normal. The fact that these reports come along with objectively measured data for other functions, like neurophysiological measurements of his movement functions (which you personally often discredit other studies for not having), I think makes them more believable. And if anything, it warrants further investigation.

    I don't really understand why you think my optimism is excessive. I never said epidural stim alone will cure SCI. I think the results it has gotten so far have been robust, and I think it could be an important piece of the cure puzzle. I don't think this is excessively optimistic. You, on the other hand, seek to discourage any and all research that doesn't promise a full regenerated spinal cord in one shot. That setting the bar too high.

    The problem is that when you instantly shoot down and discredit every single study and researcher that comes along that genuinely tries or wants to help the cure movement, the general public thinks that all people with SCIs don't want a cure, and no research gets funded. I don't see how that helps the cure movement.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkeye0qcZ9A

  6. #26
    Moderator jody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    east o the southern warren
    Posts
    8,527
    I wonder if some part of this kind of thing might help with pain. I think my choices for pain control are about done with. so now what can I do to deal with the pain once I get the 13 years of patch out of my body? anything?

    the withdrawal is almost constant now. as debilitating as the pain.

    I don't want to go to a stronger patch. Im afraid to do that.
    I haven't raised the patch dose since 2005, when I went from 25-50.
    two years ago I replaced vocodin with one 10mg of oxy that I take on patch changing day, for break through, and to carry me over the withdrawal as the new patch seeps in.

    now what?


    now what?

  7. #27
    I've been interested in this sort of thing since I got injured in 1981 I think it is promising hope for the future.
    "Life is about how you
    respond to not only the
    challenges you're dealt but
    the challenges you seek...If
    you have no goals, no
    mountains to climb, your
    soul dies".~Liz Fordred

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jody View Post

    now what?


    now what?
    Lithium

  9. #29
    Subaxone in diminishing doses can take you through withdrawal symptoms. Find a pain doctor that understands and can follow.

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    602
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Lithium
    Care to elaborate? I'm to the point with my pain that I would deep fry Lithium Ion batteries for a snack if I thought it would help.

Similar Threads

  1. New post about the Epidural Stimulation
    By Barrington314mx in forum Cure
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 10-27-2014, 09:54 PM
  2. Epidural Stimulation
    By Skipow in forum Cure
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-28-2013, 12:09 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-16-2011, 06:39 AM
  4. Epidural stimulation?
    By cgtreadw in forum Science, Medicine, & Technology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-20-2011, 10:47 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-20-2005, 02:43 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •