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Thread: Dollar general won't read or understand the service dog ADA laws.

  1. #11
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    they do have registry's but it's people trying to sell you their certificate and "certified Id package.
    http://www.servicedogregistration.org/

    I tried to register here, and since I didn't buy their stuff, my account isn't reachable.
    Iv emailed them explaining a problem with accessing after registering, and they are very nice about changing passwords and all that but if there is nothing in your cart, you cant access the account more than once.

    they've sent emails telling me I can't fly or stay in a hotel unless I buy their ID and vest package.
    so, I called the Greenville south Carolina airport, and the Philadelphia international airport and Allentown airport, which are the ones I would be using.

    Some of the hotels do require these false documents. but most know the ADA doesn't require certification and that it isn't a legal document.

    it's just a way for someone to profit off of disabled people.

    You need current shot records, your dog needs to be clean, and well behaved, the only thing a business can demand is,
    they can ask:
    do you have a disability?
    Is your dog trained to assist with your disability?

    There are Obedience tests you can pass and your dog can graduate from a private program or organization that can give you their certificate or diploma, but it isn't a legal document accepted recognized or required as a legal document.

    anyone can buy the stuff and put it on their dog. and you can buy them in assorted colors, they don't have to be red.

    the reason is because each dog is trained for the persons disability and each personal need may be different for each dog.

    A dog in training and a dog trainer is also allowed the same public access to most places the public is allowed to go.

    For me personally, a vest wouldn't allow me to use my dog, like his heavy leather harness allows.



    The website link for Dollar General was very nice to use, and It saved me the trouble of mailing a letter.
    I didn't complain, but only stated my individual situation.

    I let them know (I) am a registered member of the south Carolina spinal cord injury association, and the Pennsylvania spinal cord injury association.
    also what my dog helps me with, and that the information their managers and employee's have about ADA public access is not correct, and I asked them to please review the ADA information on the subject of service dogs for disabled people. And I provided a link for their convenience.

  2. #12
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    There is a fine for using a service animal if you are not really disabled and if the dog doesn't really provide you with any task that might help you with your disability.

    a dog paid for by insurance, or prescribed by a Dr usually comes from an organization of some kind, but those organizations aren't governed in any way and are privately owned.

    the price of a dog and it's training is also subject to the individual organization providing the service dog.

    I feel for the safety of my dog, and the public, he should be well trained, and should wear Identification.
    there are many incidents of police shooting service dogs not properly leashed and not Identified as a service animals.
    My dog is noted as a service dog with the microchip company his chip is registered with, and I carry his vaccination papers, and he wears a current vaccination tag.
    our vet also recognizes him as a service dog as does my landlord.
    he meets all the requirements of a service dog, though we are a new team and he does make mistakes. he's still a puppy even if he weighs over a hundred pounds.

    I observe the leash laws and I pick up after my dog as a courtesy to the public.
    And as a responsible dog owner.

    the general feeling is that our working dogs are not pets, but he's my buddy too so I have to do everything possible to protect his safety.

    the manager of Dollar General manager stated that people complained about the size of my dog, but there was no chance for anything like that.
    I asked to see the incident report, and there was none.
    Last edited by jody; 02-17-2014 at 12:55 PM. Reason: typo's

  3. #13
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    http://www.amazon.com/Mesh-Saddlebag...arness+for+dog

    I got him this. It fits very well, and the handle is strong enough for maintaining balance. the patches on the bags are velcro'ed so Im going to sew one on a collar for him.

    that should satisfy everyone. I ordered Orange but got red. if you search you can find assorted colors.
    it is easier to get on than his leather harness. the other removable patch is going on his heavy leather harness, so all bases are covered.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new
    getting him this for his ID when I figure out how order the custom information that goes on it.

    I just don't think it's right for places to sell certified papers and ID that are not really legal and not actually a certification.
    the price is reasonable compared to the "certified ID" and im satisfied Im not encouraging the myth that these things are required if you use a working dog. The harness is ok for pulling but I prefer the heavy leather with a sheepskin lining. The bags are good and sturdy, and the dog is comfortable wearing it for long periods of time. I can put enough supplies in the bags to not need a purse, including poo bags (for the dog), caths (for me), a phone, treats, his rabies papers and a copy of the ADA regulations concerning service dogs. and a few other small essentials.
    Last edited by jody; 02-18-2014 at 02:31 PM. Reason: typo

  4. #14
    Hi Jody,
    This is a late reply, but it might help you anyway. I'm pretty new here and I'm still finding things to read,

    I trained dogs for more than 40 years, all sorts of breeds, mixes, temperaments, for obedience, Schutzhund etc. Dabbled in agility and flyball, and a little freestyle in my living room. When the health issues started, I had to retire from teaching classes, but still took an occasional private client.. And I have always charged nothing for advice. Around the same time, I got a Rottweiler puppy. Having to teach here obedience anyway, I thought ahead and taught her things to help me, in case my leg ulcers did lead to amputation. (They didn't, but I'm permanently chair bound.)

    Lexi was smart, quick and loved to learn and work. The next year, I acquired a male Rottweiler 18 months old. He also learned a few tasks, but anything that Lexi did wasn't allowed <G> She would shove Axl out of the way and give him her "THIS is how you do it look.) So, I crated her to work with him. Long story short, Lexi knew over 100 words and commands and could, pick up what I dropped, get shoes, get slippers, put laundry into washer, dryer and take out of dryer, put things in the sink, carry things for me (like a hammer) and more that I'm not remembering. She was just always there and figured out some things on her own to help me. Axl was my get me off the floor, brace and balance dog, help me stand from a chair, toilet, bed etc.

    All of the tasks are just expanded obedience commands. You seem to have some knowledge of training a dog, so it shouldn't be too hard to teach "untraditional" commands. Your dog hasn't been "in training" for very long, I would think it's a little too soon for public access. At first I would stick to stores where pets are allowed. Petsmart, Petco, and whatever else you have in your state. I would also take him to obedience classes for the exposure and distractions. Are there any obedience clubs in your area? That's usually the best place to go. Even AKC Obedience clubs are offering classes using only PP methods, because that's what the general public wants. Everything warm and fuzzy! Ask for a traditional training class that uses balanced training. Your dog MUST be reliable and PP classes don't give it to you.

    Then maybe go for his Canine Good Citizen, or better yet, his CD degree. Having that CD shows your dog has more training than a CGC dog has. Another good thing to have is a prescription from your doctor. You will have to explain this to him. I had sample scripts from different doctors that people put on a service dog forum, but I've lost them. Mine was written on a letterhead paper and stated that I was disabled and that a service dog was needed to mitigate my disabilities. I took it to Staples, had it shrunk down, but still readable, and laminated it. I also always had access cards in the pocket of Lexi's vest. I got mine from LDS Leather, but I just went there and they sell them, but have no picture of what front and back says. In fact they don't have guide dog harnesses, the balance and mobility handles and a ton of stuff. They still might do those things if you call them and tell them your needs. They're a bit pricey, but the workmanship is outstanding. The owners and workers all use service dogs, so that's helpful in getting what you need.

    I've never heard of anybody getting a dog that was paid for by insurance, although Medicare considers dogs to be durable medical equipment. Wonder if they increase you disability checks to include food and care LOL!
    No, the prescription from the doctor is similar to what mine said. It's not like a script for a wheelchair or other needed items.

    Some other things that may help. Always carry access cards. Somebody confronts you, hand them one and keep going. FYI, it isn't the dog that has any rights, it's the PWD's right to have a dog accompany them wherever they go.
    A dog must be able to perform 3 tasks that help you to be called a service dog. (That's crazy to me...only 3 things? I would think more.)
    If you wear medical alert jewelry, make sure to include: "Service Dog, Do Not Separate." If you were to pass out, fall or whatever when out in public, that will hopefully assure that your dog is not taken to a shelter. Also have available somewhere a phone number of the person who is allowed to take and care for your dog. They SHOULD put the dog in the ambulance with you, but the dog has to be calm and non-threatening.
    Also, on your dogs ID tag, if he wears one, instead of his name, put Service Dog. Somewhere put the do not seperate thing (probably right under "Service Dog") mine was on the back. Also on the back was "If I'm alone, I'm lost. My person needs my help.

    This is what my access cards say, since I can't find a picture:

    On the front: What is a Service Animal?
    A service animal is any animal individually trained to perform tasks for a person with a disability (PWD)
    Such as to guide a person who is blind, alert a person who is deaf, pull a wheelchair or pick up dropped items, alert or protect
    a person with seizures or provide balance and mobility assistance, among other tasks
    A PWD may be asked what tasks the service animal performs but may not be asked for
    special certification or ID cards for the animal and may not be asked about his disability.
    A PWD may not be charged additional fees to be accompanied by a service animal.
    A PWD accompanied by a service animal must be admitted and may not be isolated, segregated or treated less favorably than other patrons.

    And my favorite is the back:
    The Americans With Disabilities Act
    If you are an employee or owner of any business open to the public including, but not limited to,
    restaurants, hotels, taxis, shuttles, stores, medical facilities, theaters, parks, health clubs, or zoos and you are being given this
    card, you have probably violated the federal Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the civil rights of the card-holder. Violators
    of the ADA can be required to pay money damages and penalties.
    For more information about the rights of persons with disabilities with service animals, please contact:
    The United States Department of justice at
    1-800-514-0301

    Remember that the ADA has been changed as far as animals that can be used. I believe they even removed Helper Monkeys from the list.

    Sorry this turned out so long. for tags that are well made and very reasonable, I go to Boomerang Tags .com. Some other places that may help are:
    http://servicedogcentral.org/content/access-disputes
    http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...s-law/6163211/

    Also, each state is different when it comes to "dogs in-training" access. In Ohio, where I am, dogs in-training are not allowed access. I worked around that by training the dog to a very high level before taking her to
    some places. California does allow access to dogs in-training. Probably because CCI is there So, check with your state, make sure he is almost flawless and never mention he's in-training. Myself and other SD owners are furious about
    all of the phony ID crap. That is going to ruin it for those of us that truly need a service dog and have well trained reliable dogs. Don't these people stop and think that it is fraudulent to try and pass off plain old Fido as being a service dog?!

    Good luck to you, Jody! Maybe there should be a forum just for service dog training and other training problems that pets have. If you have any questions, just ask. If I don't know, I have resources and professional people that can give me an answer for you.

    K9 (Julie)
    [/B][/SIZE]
    Last edited by SCI-Nurse; 03-07-2014 at 07:35 PM. Reason: The huge font!
    Ban the DEED,Not the BREED!

  5. #15
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    Thank you for your reply.
    As it turns out, even dogs wearing the made up "certified service dog" Id, and wearing a vest, are turned out of dollar general, or they are harassed.

    A man saying he was a general manager claims to have seen me in the store with my dog, and that people ran out in fear. This was a complete lie, as My dog was never inside their store. He claims to have been there to witness me in the store.
    Im not sure what the heck that is all about, what his motivation is.

    I have not been to a dollar general since. When I am up to a confrontation I may go ahead and and tell them go ahead call the police then. I have no problem shopping other places, but it's about the principal of the matter.
    They are breaking the law, not I.

    I looked online and found a few video's
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRNc6NWp19Q
    this is one. this is about what I experienced. My dog was not in their store however. I began shopping at that store on the very day it opened in 2009. They know me well as iv been shopping there for four years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwi_MN06_u0
    this is the trainer going to the same store.
    their dogs were wearing the vests and Id that they want my dog to wear. I have a vest, but my dog doesn't wear it, he wears a working harness which is clearly labeled service dog wit two large patches. he has all the proper health papers and vaccination records, and it's very obvious he is working, and that I have mobility issues.

    anyway they have a class action law suit or had because the managers still kicked the man out.
    I don't see the video of the man calling the police, but it did come to that.

    I think more people should visit dollar general with their service dogs.

    even after this it's still a problem.

    this is in south Carolina.
    Last edited by jody; 03-10-2014 at 12:25 AM.

  6. #16
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucGxpmqCEJk

    my dog uses the same type of harness as the dog in this video.
    I gave the store manager the same info, except for south Carolina, ADA and national ADA laws.
    the refused to even look at it.

    I spoke to them just as this lady here did. the same words, except I did provide copy of the ADA laws.

  7. #17
    Super Moderator Sue Pendleton's Avatar
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    Check out Assistance Dogs International. They often have local groups of self trainers who go out on socialization exercises together. And some dogs do need certification, mainly by a vet, to travel out of the country. I've never seen a red vest and in high school I worked part time for a teacher at the Wisconsin School for the Blind. They use a basic brown leather harness and some still carry a white cane.
    Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow."

    Disclaimer: Answers, suggestions, and/or comments do not constitute medical advice expressed or implied and are based solely on my experiences as a SCI patient. Please consult your attending physician for medical advise and treatment. In the event of a medical emergency please call 911.

  8. #18
    Moderator jody's Avatar
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    I asked them if they would ask a blind person for certified dog ID, and if they would require that blind person to put a red vest on their dog. they said no, and that they have never had a blind person in their store or any other person with a dog.

    and two sentences later the manager said she "had to kick someone out because they had a Chihuahua with a service vest and they were rubbing the dogs butt on everything"

    the other manager standing next to her said "My sister has a service dog."

    I think both things were made up on the spot, like their made up service dog Id requirements.

    I began shopping there on the day the store opened in 2009.
    Iv never went in without a cane, and braces on both legs, often wearing shorts.

    iv spent about 150-200 each month in that store, as I go twice a month if I can, to get cat food, food staples, cleaning supplies, paper towels, and toilet paper, and sometimes Tshirts to dye.

    they know very well who I am and I let them know for months I would get a balance dog.

    I hate going to walmart after the old man knocked me over. Iv had extreme anxiety since that whole thing, so basically became a recluse except for Drs appointments.

    Walmart gives me no trouble with my dog though.

    He has never misbehaved or failed to do his job while at food lion, walmart, petsmart, or tristar.

    we don't go into restaurants. He isn't ready for that, and I wont set him up to fail at his job. I
    have no need to have him inside a restaurant. His behavior at an outside eatery was perfect though.

    It's a seven mile drive to walmart.

    Dollar General is 3/4 mile from my home.

    I don't mind not going to Dollar general at all, as I only go there because it's close, and it's a one stop shop.

    To have a problem with another store after the last thing is disheartening.

    I don't think its fair the way Dollar General is insinuating they would claim I caused trouble in their store with my dog, when I have spent my small income there for five years.

    I was outside their store with my dog, not inside. My dog waited in my truck, or we stood in front of the store just like the man in the video posted above.


    Im just trying to have a good life while living with what I live with. I gave up on having friends that are people after the horrible thing that happened last year.


    Im not bothering anyone. you don't know about lonesome unless you do.

    I do.

    My dog is a wonderful gift. I can leave him home, but why should I, when the law is on my side, and Im abiding by the law?

    Im worried about even bothering to tell anyone about this new thing after the rejection and the heartbreak I felt upon losing friends who were so dear to me, but the truth is, I belong here.

    I earned my place, I put in my time, and iv been true to myself, and to those iv admired.

    Iv been faithful to care cure.
    Iv regretted speaking without caution, like I was some kind of family member.

    I trusted the wrong people and paid dearly with my emotional well being.

    I have extreme social anxiety.

    I cant explain enough, what the witch hunt did to my confidence.

    It isn't about me though.

    Dollar General is breaking the law.

    Being dishonest.

    walmart was too.

    I went in for a paint brush one day, and the world I had to look out on ended.

    Im not the only disabled person on the planet, and this is a huge chain of stores with a policy that excludes people like us who might find comfort and safety traveling with a dog, in an unsafe unaccepting inaccessible place.

    Someone passed laws to allow us the right to be in public.

    Dollar General is Making up their own laws.

    Walmart did what they did because Im nobody.

    I don't matter to them.

    I don't matter to Dollar General, and I don't matter to people who mattered to me.

    Im nobody, but im one person.

    Id picket the place if I had a leg to stand on.

    If it were just me, id just leave it be, and just go somewhere else with my unacceptable self, But what Dollar general is doing affects all disabled people with a working dog who choose to patronize their stores.

    they arnt just doing it to me ether.
    they are doing it to everyone with a service dog. Making up their own service dog laws, and making up their version of why service dogs are a problem in their stores. and even bold enough to make up a story to back themselves up.

    until a law says service dogs are to be certified, and there is a lawful place to certify them,
    requiring false documentation to enter their stores is just a ploy to have it their way.

    it isn't right that there are businesses selling those false certified service dog paraphernalia so dollar general and other places think a service dog isn't a service dog, unless they are dressed a certain way.

    it only buys them a reason to exclude someone who was going to spend their tiny income in their store because it was nearby.

    it's just a small thing really.

    a little matter of people making up their own public laws to exclude everyone with a working dog, while at the same time refusing to read the laws when the law is handed to them.
    Last edited by jody; 03-10-2014 at 03:48 PM.

  9. #19
    What is your dog's breed? Is it possible that where the concern is? Are you actually training your dog with basic commands while out with her/him or is your dog trained now? Is there any barking or excited behavior by your dog in public?

    I'll take heat for this, but I have some concerns about self-trained dogs. There are people and animals who manage complicated training beautifully. There are others who use the law as an excuse to take their pets everywhere with them. In some of these cases, an animal's temperament and lack of true training can create a hazard for the rest of us. I am concerned individuals who claim to train their own dogs and don't know how/have a poor idea of what assistance animals do make it more complicated for the rest of us.

    I am for a certification program for self-trained assistance dogs. Temperament, training verification, animal abilities, etc. should be checked. For any of us who wish to train our own animals, there should be a uniform standard of basic skills, temperament, training. (Flame at will.)

    The actual professional training of assistance dogs begins when the animals are, but weeks old. It covers so many things at a very, very early age. For example, the dogs begin going through smaller versions of "doors" (actually cloth hung where a very small door would be) and progress from there. There is a world of difference in how dogs from CCI (Canine Companions for Independence) are trained and those who are trained by owners. It's often the difference in an ivy league college education and what is taught in a poorly run pre-school. It's not at all the same.

    Assistance animals in professional training programs can wash out and do. Some may have tasks down perfectly and be too easily excited to make the cut. Other animals may be perfect other than a tendency of aggression when it comes to their food. For anyone wondering about CCi and other assistance dog programs, check with the individual organizations. There are specialized trainers, behaviorists, veterinarians, even workers for client matches who will be paired with the animals. There is a reason it costs $20,000 per assistance animal/human pairing.

    It's just something to think about.
    Last edited by LaMemChose; 03-10-2014 at 05:46 PM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Donno's Avatar
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    Why do you expect flames? That was a well thought out, articulate post.
    Don - Grad Student Emeritus
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