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Thread: Help me get a new chair.

  1. #11
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    interesting. I guess the clamp is the only thing that worries me for curb jumping but if youve never had problems I guess it doesnt loosen hmmm.

    I am going to look into the Icon and see how much the total is. We're having a convention here in LA next week. maybe theyll have a demo so I can 'test drive'

  2. #12
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    https://www.facebook.com/iconwheelchairs
    $3295 for the base model. A fair bit cheaper than when my son's was purchased!

    ZRA base model is presumably cheaper, but no suspension....

    Wish there were conventions this side of Australia...but unfortunately not....
    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imight View Post
    interesting. I guess the clamp is the only thing that worries me for curb jumping but if youve never had problems I guess it doesnt loosen hmmm.
    It seems to have been designed well. In the worst case scenario, it would be easy to get a replacement front castor assembly (and/or front footrest assembly), and just bolt it all back together. Try doing that with a welded ZRA!
    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordy1 View Post
    It seems to have been designed well. In the worst case scenario, it would be easy to get a replacement front castor assembly (and/or front footrest assembly), and just bolt it all back together. Try doing that with a welded ZRA!
    that's true. I am most def going to take a look at this, I love how its all black. might paint the white font and make it real stealth.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    I'm a huge fan of Jeff Adams and Christian Bagg. I was an early adopter of their Marvel M1, and am still, to this day, quite disappointed their company was dismantled by their primary investor: Cervelo (of racing bicycle fame). The Marvel M2 would have been over the top, and just thinking about what happened still upsets me, and I was just a customer. Can't imagine what it was/is like for Jeff and Christian. Being professionals, and passionate about their work, they dusted themselves off and moved on to create the Icon.

    The Icon is an update on an earlier design of Bagg's in collaboration with Sorano (another bicycle company). It (Icon) was engineered in partnership with a world-class design/engineering firm with extensive experience in high-end autos and race cars, as well as other industrial equipment. It is quite an accomplishment, IMHO. If I hadn't already had a stable of 3 fantastic chairs, 2 Lashers and the Marvel, I would have bought one by now.

    If I were in China, and traveling to other developing nations, I would be leery of taking an Icon. For no other reason than all that adjustability MIGHT compromise 2 of your requirements: Silent running and long term durability. Early reports indicate some rattling occurs and regular fastener maintenance is required. I imagine the rougher the regular surfaces you encounter the greater this requirement/liability will be. On durability, I can only say there isn't enough long term usage data available for me to have confidence in an opinion, one way or another. More complexity (suspension and its linkage, more fasteners, non-structural footrest) implies more potential issues, IMO.

    Direct factory support would be much better with the Icon, though, I'm not knowledgable about the differences in TiLite vs Icon warranties. Since you want to buy "for the long haul" this is an important consideration, IMO.

    Having posted all that, I would buy an Icon before a ZRA if I was in the market today, but I am VERY easy on my equipment, and a trip to the grocery store, or the mall, is about as adventurous as I get, these days! (Aside that, a minimally adjustable aluminum box frame (Aero T, Box, Terminator, ORacing Xtreme Box -this one in chromolybendum!!!) would actually be my choice for silent running and durability in a far away land, but, that doesn't fit your desire for adjustability. (Aluminum/steel welders are quite common in developing places. Titanium, not so much!) Although, when was the last time you changed something on your GT?!?! Is that really a high priority? Higher than long term durability, for instance?)

    My .02 cents, only, of course.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
    I'm a huge fan of Jeff Adams and Christian Bagg. I was an early adopter of their Marvel M1, and am still, to this day, quite disappointed their company was dismantled by their primary investor: Cervelo (of racing bicycle fame). The Marvel M2 would have been over the top, and just thinking about what happened still upsets me, and I was just a customer. Can't imagine what it was/is like for Jeff and Christian. Being professionals, and passionate about their work, they dusted themselves off and moved on to create the Icon.

    The Icon is an update on an earlier design of Bagg's in collaboration with Sorano (another bicycle company). It (Icon) was engineered in partnership with a world-class design/engineering firm with extensive experience in high-end autos and race cars, as well as other industrial equipment. It is quite an accomplishment, IMHO. If I hadn't already had a stable of 3 fantastic chairs, 2 Lashers and the Marvel, I would have bought one by now.

    If I were in China, and traveling to other developing nations, I would be leery of taking an Icon. For no other reason than all that adjustability MIGHT compromise 2 of your requirements: Silent running and long term durability. Early reports indicate some rattling occurs and regular fastener maintenance is required. I imagine the rougher the regular surfaces you encounter the greater this requirement/liability will be. On durability, I can only say there isn't enough long term usage data available for me to have confidence in an opinion, one way or another. More complexity (suspension and its linkage, more fasteners, non-structural footrest) implies more potential issues, IMO.

    Direct factory support would be much better with the Icon, though, I'm not knowledgable about the differences in TiLite vs Icon warranties. Since you want to buy "for the long haul" this is an important consideration, IMO.

    Having posted all that, I would buy an Icon before a ZRA if I was in the market today, but I am VERY easy on my equipment, and a trip to the grocery store, or the mall, is about as adventurous as I get, these days! (Aside that, a minimally adjustable aluminum box frame (Aero T, Box, Terminator, ORacing Xtreme Box -this one in chromolybendum!!!) would actually be my choice for silent running and durability in a far away land, but, that doesn't fit your desire for adjustability. (Aluminum/steel welders are quite common in developing places. Titanium, not so much!) Although, when was the last time you changed something on your GT?!?! Is that really a high priority? Higher than long term durability, for instance?)

    My .02 cents, only, of course.
    Yea this is why I was looking into the Aero Z and Invacare crossfire T7. less rattle and long term durability.

    My GT, last time was last summer. I lost a caster curb jumping. its something I do often due to the lack of curb cuts. luckily, titanium4wheels from this site came through and shipped me the spare parts. took about a week. I didnt go many places but I did still roll, oddly enough I learned you can wheel on 3 wheels, so long as you arent going up and down a hill/ramp long story haha.

    My I'd like to not have to compromise on the durability vs adjustability, thats why im trying to find the perfect unison. granted I dont have to have the chair be a transformer, just minor adjustability is fine. I think the Aero Z does that, but its a bit heavy and aluminium, not titanium. which means the wheeling will have a tad bit more pressure on my shoulders.

    Its all about finding the sweet spot. If Icon can handle curb jumps, I'd get it, but I question its durability. The clamped casters worry me. Right now I think the ZRA is in the lead for picks.

    How much are Mike Box, anyways?

  7. #17
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    In terms of durability, have a look at these videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc_qn9O_70
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AydYhtI2LY

    My one qualification is that my son is not a heavy adult, but I think you will understand when I say that durability is not a concern I have any more!

    The Firefly has a speedometer / odometer - top speed of 20km/h on the flat (faster downhill). Current odometer reading is around 1300km...all done on the Icon.

    (but jeez, you would think Jeff would throw some freebies my way, given how much time I'm spending showing off the Icon!!)
    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Oddity's Avatar
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    I have little doubt the Icon is a decently tough chair. When I think of making a "long term" wheelchair purchase I'm thinking 6-8 years of relatively trouble free use, minimum. To be clear, I'm not knocking the Icon A1. It simply hasn't been out that long, as a model or a brand, to know how it'll hold up. Most chairs with lots of fasteners, or complexity, compared to others with less, don't fare all that well over the course of a decade, in my experience and research. Will the A1? Maybe so!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordy1 View Post
    In terms of durability, have a look at these videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc_qn9O_70
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AydYhtI2LY

    My one qualification is that my son is not a heavy adult, but I think you will understand when I say that durability is not a concern I have any more!

    The Firefly has a speedometer / odometer - top speed of 20km/h on the flat (faster downhill). Current odometer reading is around 1300km...all done on the Icon.

    (but jeez, you would think Jeff would throw some freebies my way, given how much time I'm spending showing off the Icon!!)
    checking them out now.

    I just got word Mike Box will be at the convention this weekend. I know Tilite will be there they always are, not sure about the Icon, but hopefully they are and I can try all 3. Ill give you guys my review after the convention is over.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Imight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordy1 View Post
    In terms of durability, have a look at these videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sc_qn9O_70
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AydYhtI2LY

    My one qualification is that my son is not a heavy adult, but I think you will understand when I say that durability is not a concern I have any more!

    The Firefly has a speedometer / odometer - top speed of 20km/h on the flat (faster downhill). Current odometer reading is around 1300km...all done on the Icon.

    (but jeez, you would think Jeff would throw some freebies my way, given how much time I'm spending showing off the Icon!!)
    K just got back from the expo.

    It appears Ill be getting the ZR or ZRA. The Icon rode the smoothest, but had the most parts, lots of screws and loose ends. I think someone mentioned that here, and it was great assumption. I dont think it would last long in Asia with the things I do. I can most def see things getting loose after 2-3 years and it starting to 'jingle'. It was a nice chair tho, very light, smoothest ride out of all of them.

    Now, I have to decide between the ZRA and ZR, I didn't see the ZRA but I saw the ZR and THAT was stable. It was solid in terms of not very many parts (esp since its not adjustable) it made NO sounds. It was true monotube in a sense. The ride was ok, maybe if I dabble with different casters it will make a difference (the casters on the Icon were bad ass).

    I'm going to check out the ZRA at the shop later this week to see if there's that much of a difference and how many more screws there really is, but it looks like I've narrowed it down to a TiLite. I do like the Icon and if I lived in the suburbs like I used too back in the day, and lived a calmer life with wide flat clean LA burb streets I would most def pick that chair instead, but that's not my life anymore, so I need something sturdy.

    I missed the Mike Box crew, apparently they were there Friday. sucks because I bet their chair would have been a good fit. I dont think they deal with third party vendors either, so there's nothing I can really do about that, and there's no way I can drive ALL the way out to norco. its just too far for a 30 min or 1 hour consultation and no 100% guarantee I'd like it.

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