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Thread: Hand control for newer vehicles with electronic throttles

  1. #11
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    This is a very interesting concept - I don't completely understand whether the idea is to physically push the pedal sor to send an electronic signal further upstream. In either case I really like the simplicity of mechanical hand controls. This looks more complex and I worry about failures which could be life threatening
    The braking function is wholly mechanical and a whole lot simpler than conventional controls; there's a lot less linkage, joints and bracketry to wear, fail or come loose.
    The throttle function simply moves VW's electronic throttle pedal sensor up to the hand control and operates it mechanically via a bicycle brake lever and cable. The (unmodified) electronic throttle is fail-safe; the position sensors are redundant; if both signals aren't identical, the vehicle assumes something is wrong and goes into limp-mode making only a tiny amount of power available-enough to go very slowly to the dealer. OR-if there is a larger disparity, it provides no throttle function and the car will only idle, the same as all VWs built in the last decade, so, IMHO, this is simpler and more reliable than any of my former manufactured controls.

  2. #12
    Using a bicycle brake lever is a great idea. *If* one has finger tip control, then feathering a pedal should be fairly easy.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  3. #13
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Using a bicycle brake lever is a great idea. *If* one has finger tip control, then feathering a pedal should be fairly easy.
    I had an ongoing conversation with a hi-function quad friend who got an Audi A3 about how or what to implement for a similar control without the squeezing throttle. Maybe a contoured knob deal that fits into the pocket of the palm and is rotated ~90*, idle >WOT? Let the cruise area of the sweep be in the relaxed/neutral area of forearm/wrist rotation.
    The nice thing about these little transducers is the ability to easily link them to many architectures, all using low force.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Do you have any spare American pedals to examine and compare? I totally forgot how my Chrysler one was laid out, so if you have one to dissect... Or a Ford, I'm still playing around with one of those turds...probably be a better 'practice' chassis, lol.

  5. #15
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Do you have any spare American pedals to examine and compare? I totally forgot how my Chrysler one was laid out, so if you have one to dissect... Or a Ford, I'm still playing around with one of those turds...probably be a better 'practice' chassis, lol.
    Junkyard!
    When I was doing this I got a couple Volvo assys used; the VW was $79 list @VW, cost me $53 with my discount.
    I hunch that yours is very much like the VW which AFAIK is Bosch. I wouldn't be surprised if the circuit boards are the same.
    When I did the GTI, I cut the pedal harness near the pedal and ran a pair of 6 conductor cables back up to a terminal strip that I hid behind the access panel to the left of the steering column.
    I thought I would have to switch 4 poles or the ECM would see a fault (both power and both signal legs), but discovered later that I could leave power and ground connected to both sensors (foot and hand control) and only needed a DPDT switch on the two signal legs. Nevertheless, having all six conductors in an exposed row on the strip made it easy to pense out the circuitry which was stupid because it was not ordered; instead of two identical groups of 3, they were intermingled in no sensible order!
    Next one I do, I'll only run 8 wires back from the splice (instead of 12) to the terminal strip. I wonder if you left both controls fully connected, what you'd have? It might work if you only opened one at a time, but I like leaving my foot down where the gas pedal sits PLUS with the switch set to hand control, I don't mind leaving the key in the car in some places. If a thief started it and put it in gear, I don't think they would wait to find out why it doesn't go!

  6. #16
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    I wish I could do junkyard...but the ones around here are slop or gravel, I have a hard enough time working on my car in my garage as it is. I'm not about to make a complete mess of things or deal with access issues. Don't feel like spending $125 for a test piece either. Oh well, not that important to me right now, although a tiny trigger on a easily relocated brake lever (now that gas wouldn't be an issue), would be rather cool.

    Anyway, I attached a .pdf showing the schematics of my DBW setup. I think nonoise was asking about voltages in one of these threads about this...this has some info on that also on it. Is what you are doing looking very similar to this?

    THROTTLE-CONTROL-SYSTEM---5.7L_6.4L.pdf

  7. #17
    I am SO impressed... you people are the awesome

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    I had an ongoing conversation with a hi-function quad friend who got an Audi A3 about how or what to implement for a similar control without the squeezing throttle. Maybe a contoured knob deal that fits into the pocket of the palm and is rotated ~90*, idle >WOT? Let the cruise area of the sweep be in the relaxed/neutral area of forearm/wrist rotation.
    The nice thing about these little transducers is the ability to easily link them to many architectures, all using low force.
    I wonder if rotating the control would allow him to use it? Instead of squeezing for acceleration he could push with the palm of his hand.

    The stub for the brake might have to be altered.
    Last edited by Brent K; 08-18-2015 at 12:53 AM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I wish I could do junkyard...but the ones around here are slop or gravel, I have a hard enough time working on my car in my garage as it is. I'm not about to make a complete mess of things or deal with access issues. Don't feel like spending $125 for a test piece either. Oh well, not that important to me right now, although a tiny trigger on a easily relocated brake lever (now that gas wouldn't be an issue), would be rather cool.

    Anyway, I attached a .pdf showing the schematics of my DBW setup. I think nonoise was asking about voltages in one of these threads about this...this has some info on that also on it. Is what you are doing looking very similar to this?THROTTLE-CONTROL-SYSTEM---5.7L_6.4L.pdf
    Yes! It very much resembles the VW & Audi DBW (drive by wire) throttle setup. In some very early (BMW) setups, the accelerator sensor used a pair of potentiometers but AFAIK all newer units use much more relaible Hall sensors. But the architecture of the pedal circuits always has two sensors (3wires ea) reporting pedal position to the engine management computer (ECM, PCM, etc)
    The throttle body with electronic throttle also will have a servo-motor to open and control throttle opening as well as two throttle position sensor to feed back throttle position to the computer.
    As long as the two pedal sensors and throttle position sensors give coherent information all is well. If there is any discrepancy, then the ECM goes into limp mode allowing very little torque-in the case of the VW, enough to get up to ~25mph on a long flat run!
    As I recall the VW system has parallel signals that mirror one another; 0V=idle, 5V=WOT. I believe the Volvo may have parallel 0-5v & 0-2.5V signals. I think early BMWs inverted one channel (0-5V & 5V-0)
    I think Chrystlers use the inverted protocol.
    The benefit of FBW is that the ECM can "interpret" what is going on, and control engine management in ways the driver can't, that delivers the result the driver wanted.
    When F1 had the 1.5L turbo engines (that produced almost 1,000hp in qualifying trim!) the only way to make these cars drivable was FBW.
    I wonder how much of that sort of adaption is going on in my 200hp VW turbo that doesn't have turbo lag.
    The FBW throttle valve module also easily does cruise control functions and ASR(TCS) & ESC(stability) programs without additional engine sensors or processors.

  10. #20
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    I have found many good parts here:

    http://car-part.com
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    Clicking on the highlighted yard takes you right to their site.
    Despite the salvage industry's poor reputation, I've had good luck finding cheap used parts, especially electronics here and the few times there was a problem it was resolved quickly and amicably.
    I took a quick guess on your part so it's probably wrong-OR- more likely, most Dodges for several years use the same pedal sensor, icy or hemi?

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    Last edited by pfcs49; 08-18-2015 at 12:46 PM.

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