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Thread: ZX-1 Power Add-on owners thread

  1. #691
    never let it run down imo, it should of still had enough juice to detatch as failsafe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Madsen View Post
    It was at it's lowest charge as was, what I thought, breaking in the batteries. The charge lights showed two yellows left before going into the red. I thought there was plenty of charge left. Boy, when it shut down, it shut down.
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  2. #692
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Silly question, but was the battery charged enough? Lithiums have a built in BMS which will suddenly cut power when it gets too low for it's own good. The term is low voltage cutoff. It happens to me with my I-Glide setup, so we are careful to charge it up ever other day when I'm actively using it, as it no longer has a "gas gauge". I hope your problem is quickly solved Patrick, loose connection or something simple.
    I am close to giving up and ordering these: https://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4...Batteries.aspx
    I have a digital voltmeter at my joystick.
    Is there or could I discover, a "nearly discharged" voltage? A problem IMO is that the voltage ranges with varying load (maybe on flat ground it's more stable, but here is hill city!) so it's a moving target. Maybe periodically stop and check "at rest" voltage?
    I can't deal with getting stuck some of the places I want to go, usually alone.
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  3. #693
    Thanks john. I spoke with Ryan and we'll see what the tech says. It may be the BMS or ? as it shouldn't be shutting off with three orange lights still on. He's going to checkit out with his techs also. Thanks for name at Spinergy. I owe ya!

    Will let you know how it went.

  4. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    I am close to giving up and ordering these: https://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4...Batteries.aspx
    I have a digital voltmeter at my joystick.
    Is there or could I discover, a "nearly discharged" voltage? A problem IMO is that the voltage ranges with varying load (maybe on flat ground it's more stable, but here is hill city!) so it's a moving target. Maybe periodically stop and check "at rest" voltage?
    I can't deal with getting stuck some of the places I want to go, usually alone.
    With all respect to John I would stick with LA unless Pat says otherwise. I seem to recall Pat uses LA, but do not remember his rational. I do know I am unhappy with the lithium performance I am getting with the battery in my I-Glide which is exactly the same type/size/brand and came from the same place as the one I got for my smartdrive conversion. The smartdrive conversion will run for miles and never has been a problem running out of power. The major difference between the two systems is the type of motors, brushed vs brushless.

    So the I-Glide cuts out when the voltage gets too low. All lithiums do that on purpose. You can look up the low voltage cut off for the various chemistries, I think they are around 20 volts. I sit and twiddle my thumbs and wait for it to recover if I'm in tall soft grass, somewhere hard to push, and turn it back on to get 15 or more seconds of use to easier pushing. Spinergy may have built in a low voltage cutoff for the LA, I don't know, it sounds like they may have a different protection system.

    Phil, that site you are considering has this warning, Do not use in series or in parallel. I am not sure why, bms maybe, but people combine lithium batteries all the time. I have a pair of 24's that I have in parallel with a switch in between them to disconnect at all times except during use. I charge them independently.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  5. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    With all respect to John I would stick with LA unless Pat says otherwise*. I seem to recall Pat uses LA, but do not remember his rational. I do know I am unhappy with the lithium performance I am getting with the battery in my I-Glide which is exactly the same type/size/brand and came from the same place as the one I got for my smartdrive conversion. The smartdrive conversion will run for miles and never has been a problem running out of power. The major difference between the two systems is the type of motors, brushed vs brushless.

    So the I-Glide cuts out when the voltage gets too low. All lithiums do that on purpose. You can look up the low voltage cut off for the various chemistries, I think they are around 20 volts. I sit and twiddle my thumbs and wait for it to recover if I'm in tall soft grass, somewhere hard to push, and turn it back on to get 15 or more seconds of use to easier pushing. Spinergy may have built in a low voltage cutoff for the LA, I don't know, it sounds like they may have a different protection system.

    Phil, that site you are considering has this warning, Do not use in series or in parallel. I am not sure why, bms maybe, but people combine lithium batteries all the time. I have a pair of 24's that I have in parallel with a switch in between them to disconnect at all times except during use. I charge them independently.
    *Edit: This is a quote of Pat's that explains it from post 474 this thread:
    ==============paste================
    I've never felt the need to switch to lithiums. I use only VMAX batteries. https://www.vmaxtanks.com/ . I have however added two 6ah batteries in addition to the two 15ah batteries giving me a total of 21ahs. I use it everyday, all day and never have a range problem. Charge them every night or once a week if you are not using it daily and they will last a year.
    ================end================
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  6. #696
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Battery life is dependent on how fast it it discharged as described in this link from the drone world. They describe the C rate, or discharge rate. Different batteries have different rates. I have a box of 24 volt lithiums with apparently a low rate that are quite disappointing, but two paralleled together serve as a backup battery. If you can figure the amp draw of the motors etc. maybe you can crack this puzzle. https://quadquestions.com/blog/2014/...ing-explained/
    I'm not certain that my high gear setting goes to 100% but it certainly is fast enough, and at full stick, up a quite steep gradient, it runs about 38A. That must be a pretty good max value.
    On level ground at lower speeds current is very much lower, perhaps 8A? I haven't had much experience on good terrain!! Maybe if it warms up we'll see how far it goes on less hilly terrain.

    On another topic, I just purchased a relatively cheap mig welder, a WeldPro MIG 155Gsv ($395), gas bottle and regulator not included, as is it can do stick welding or wire-fed flux core wire (included)
    I wanted to have some of the fabrication possibilities I lost when I sold my business, and my first project will likely be to re-visit the swinging arm block and tackle ZX1 lift inside the rear of my wife's R350.
    The first iteration worked sort of! The main strut was a section of square tube from our old grill frame and bowed under load-failure was a matter of time.

    Now you're influencing my trajectory! Maybe just hold em until spring, get some good baseline data on battery performance, and see what follows.
    Last edited by pfcs49; 01-13-2019 at 03:48 PM.
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  7. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    I'm not certain that my high gear setting goes to 100% but it certainly is fast enough, and at full stick, up a quite steep gradient, it runs about 38A. That must be a pretty good max value.
    On level ground at lower speeds current is very much lower, perhaps 8A? I haven't had much experience on good terrain!! Maybe if it warms up we'll see how far it goes on less hilly terrain.

    On another topic, I just purchased a relatively cheap mig welder, a WeldPro MIG 155Gsv ($395), gas bottle and regulator not included, as is it can do stick welding or wire-fed flux core wire (included)
    I wanted to have some of the fabrication possibilities I lost when I sold my business, and my first project will likely be to re-visit the swinging arm block and tackle ZX1 lift inside the rear of my wife's R350.
    The first iteration worked sort of! The main strut was a section of square the from our old grill frame and bowed under load-failure was a matter of time.

    Now you're influencing my trajectory! Maybe just hold em until spring, get some good baseline data on battery performance, and see what follows.
    If you draw 38 amps, your C rate would have to be pretty darn high to keep up IMO. My I-Glide had a 10 amp fuse until I decided to do away with it, but they weren't expecting more of a load than that. Of course I-Glides are physically smaller motors as far as I can tell. Since lithiums are physically smaller, you could use four of them. I've thought about doing that with these low C 24's I got at $10 each.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  8. #698
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    I don't know about C rate, etc, but it certainly is a rush flying up a hill that is a mountain to me in manual mode!

    And this high current draw only lasts 10-15 seconds as I transit the pitch the property is on at full speed.
    At a normal walking pace, current is less than half that on this hill.
    It's kind of like the feeling when the secondaries open and the machine gets up on a hot cam! Feels like I should be lifting the front wheels. I like it-a little taste of the freedom I lost.
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  9. #699
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    I was on the servo/programmable micro-controller site regarding my 3 position generator servo, and found a very interesting batter charger for $54 that very intelligently charges just about any battery!https://www.pololu.com/file/0J857/ma...MAXB6AC-v2.pdf

    Also, it works off 120-240vac as well as 11-18vdc which would be great if my wife needed to make a road call to give me a jump!
    It also services any type of battery imaginable.
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  10. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    I was on the servo/programmable micro-controller site regarding my 3 position generator servo, and found a very interesting batter charger for $54 that very intelligently charges just about any battery!https://www.pololu.com/file/0J857/ma...MAXB6AC-v2.pdf

    Also, it works off 120-240vac as well as 11-18vdc which would be great if my wife needed to make a road call to give me a jump!
    It also services any type of battery imaginable.
    I don't like it. Reading the instructions give me a headache with all the questions I want answered. The charger I would get, (and want) is this one from Canada: https://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Grin...orV1.3_WEB.pdf

    If you see a need for charging from your car, get a good power inverter. It can be used for other uses too.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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