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Thread: ZX-1 Power Add-on owners thread

  1. #731
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Still curious about a cheap LiFePo option.
    These are interesting, 24V/10Ah @$168
    Two of these in parallel would give a lot of run-time>OR<if run separately, give you a get out of jail for free card when the first went low.
    http://www.batterysupports.com/ebike...k-c-19_21.html

    Feedback please
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  2. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    Still curious about a cheap LiFePo option.
    These are interesting, 24V/10Ah @$168
    Two of these in parallel would give a lot of run-time>OR<if run separately, give you a get out of jail for free card when the first went low.
    http://www.batterysupports.com/ebike...k-c-19_21.html Feedback please
    I did not see a local phone number or address on that site. It appeared to me to be more of an off shore source. Although many or most products now are imported, I like to purchase more locally. What I also had trouble with was the battery pack descriptions. Price, watts, Ah, and A sorting made little sense especially when the configuration 7s4p (7series4parallel cells) is the same. I think the issue is that each are using different type cells designed for different purposes. So whether or not your pick would be good would be a crap shoot IMHO. What you can do is call the people I purchased from. I think the brain people were/are in MN or somewhere near there. I bought the 10 Ah version of this, https://hilltopperbikes.com/product/...rinter-module/ don't know if it is still the same thing, but your could if lucky talk to someone about your amperage needs. See if they can clue you in to where you can get what you are looking for. They might tell you about the drop in 12 volt replacements. Those seem awfully small to me, Would four of them fit? nah too complicated to charge etc.

    Edit: I meant to say also that LifePo4 is not the only safe battery out there. Check out Battery University: Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide, NMC, https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...of_lithium_ion
    Last edited by nonoise; 05-08-2019 at 02:42 AM.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  3. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    Still curious about a cheap LiFePo option...
    It turns out I am in the hunt now for a new main battery, 24V, most ah, wh available that will fit my space. First place I look Endless Sphere and found this thread. It is worth reading, points out not all cell compositions are equal. And better be sure of your retailer. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...p?f=14&t=88528
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  4. #734
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Lead acid batteries dead in ~2.5 miles:(

    So Memorial day was perfect weather and I had an able bodied friend here, so we decided to do the acid test: a hilly three mile loop in my neighborhood.
    We maintained a leisurely walking pace through out. It seems that if I select the third light speed, full throttle is that speed.
    There's a .5mi ascent at the start of the circuit. At the start, all the battery condition lights were on and at rest voltage on my voltmeter was 26.4V
    By the top of the climb, two battery lights were extinguished. What was interesting was that after a flat run, there's a long descending run. I almost think there may be a slight regenerative charging effect happening because during that run, the ammeter would score .3-.4 positive amps, and for a brief while, all the battery condition lights lit.
    Long story short, the long term trend was less and less voltage/more battery lights out. Nearing the 2.5mi point, the top speed in "3rd gear" was noticeably lower; my walking buddy wanted to go faster. At this point, I was pulling 4-5A @~10v, clearly on it's last legs. Then we hit the last big hill and we were done!

    As planned, I called my wife to come with the R350 with the lift in the cargo are to fetch us. No cell service! I'm fucked!
    Fortunately Pete's phone was able to get service and julie soon appeared to rescue us.

    I'm very disappointed! These were a pair of new batteries from Pat's favorite source. I hunch on level ground, we could go much farther, but this is where I live (Schooley's Montain) and where my wife walks!

    Seems like I will necessarily need to do the LiFePO conversion in order to have the required endurance.
    To salve my grief, we visited the Shoprite and got steamers. shrimp, and corn.
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  5. #735
    This lithium source looks promising, don't know for sure if they beat the best of sla though.
    https://www.mightymaxbattery.com/p38...heelchair.html
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  6. #736
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    I am looking there. This caught my eye and may (partially) explain the apparent paradox of SLA vs LiFePO Ah ratings (like a 10Ah Lifepo replaces a 15Ah acid)Home ? LiFePO4

    LiFePO4 12V 24-35ah 500 CCA PowerSport Battery





    MSRP: $274.95
    Price: $254.95
    You Save: $20.00
    Quantity:
    Specifications
    Volts12VLength6.50
    Lithium Amp Hour10Width3.40
    Sealed Lead Acid Equivalent Ah24-35AhHeight5.12
    ChemistryLiFePO4Weight




    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  7. #737
    Note that it says sla "Equivalent" on the battery, not what the actual Ah:
    Sealed Lead Acid Equivalent Ah24-35Ah
    It does say 128 Watt Hours, which might be a better indicator of what the battery actually is. That $799 was like 1,280 watt hours, ten times as much and is what they are recommending for the ZX-1 (times two).
    Last edited by nonoise; 05-30-2019 at 08:47 PM.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  8. #738
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Note that it says sla "Equivalent" on the battery, not what the actual Ah:
    Sealed Lead Acid Equivalent Ah24-35Ah
    And the spec page indicated : lithium amp hour 10
    I'd like someone to clarify this stuff!

    Also wondering how you predict battery reserve with LiFePO since the voltage stays almost constant until they precipitously stop. Wondering if there isn't some micro circuit device that watches consumption (V & A over time) and can spit out percentage of capacity remaining? My little digital meter already is outputting (instantaneous) V & A. I'd think some sort of consumption meter would be not a lot more to do. (my meter cost like $5.95)

    "It does say 128 Watt Hours, which might be a better indicator of what the battery actually is." At 12V that would be 10.66Ah?
    Really curious specs obscure what to expect! How can this equate to 2.4-3.5 times "lead equivalency"???
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

  9. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by pfcs49 View Post
    And the spec page indicated : lithium amp hour 10
    I'd like someone to clarify this stuff!

    Also wondering how you predict battery reserve with LiFePO since the voltage stays almost constant until they precipitously stop. Wondering if there isn't some micro circuit device that watches consumption (V & A over time) and can spit out percentage of capacity remaining? My little digital meter already is outputting (instantaneous) V & A. I'd think some sort of consumption meter would be not a lot more to do. (my meter cost like $5.95)

    "It does say 128 Watt Hours, which might be a better indicator of what the battery actually is." At 12V that would be 10.66Ah?
    Really curious specs obscure what to expect! How can this equate to 2.4-3.5 times "lead equivalency"???
    Volts times amps = watt hours. 12v X 10A = 120 Wh. They state 128Wh which is probably more exact due to rounding. Incidentally the original Smartdrive battery was 24v X 10A = 220 Wh. I've got one here you could try if you lived nearby, already tapped for connection. I'm pretty sure you would be disappointed.

    As for watching for when lithium batteries will turn themselves off, I can tell you that on my trike (48v 10Ah) I installed a simple volt meter. Full charge is around 54v, sorry I don't remember cutout voltage, never needed it. It's lookup available for LifePo4.
    Your meter should be fine.

    10.66 yes. 2.4-3-4 lead eq makes no sense to me.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  10. #740
    Senior Member pfcs49's Avatar
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    128Wh/12V=10.66Ah was my logic which I think is right.

    spec sheet states Lithium Ah=10
    lead/acid equivalent Ah, 24-35Ah which is 2.4-3.5x10"lithium" Ah

    Do you see a voltage drop soon enough to know you aren't past half full? IE: before it's too late to turn around!
    69yo male T12 complete since 1995
    NW NJ

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