Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Thread: Expansion of Kunming Programme

  1. #1

    Expansion of Kunming Programme

    For a long time there has been a lot of interest on these forums in the "Kunming Walking Programme" -- which has been renamed the "Kunming International Spinal Injury Treatment Programme" by its founder Dr Zhu Hui. The programme's premises at the Kunming Tongren Hospital have been expanded and improved and additional staff recruited and trained, so the programme now has the capacity to take on more people from both China and overseas. I have been here for the past 10 months with my son David (C5 incomplete, injured in September 2009) so am familiar with the way the programme works. I would be very happy to answer questions from people who are interested in coming or who are simply curious about the Kunming method and the results my son and other patients here have achieved.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Domosoyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,020
    Has it been worth it?

  3. #3
    Very nice from you mamadavid!!!

    If they need some documents in preparation process - what they are requiring?

    Or maybe they doing complete check-up once when patient arrives and no need for special documentation (preferably)?

    To whom / where to send it? To Dr. Zhu or someone else?
    All documents will be in English - is this OK?

    What is the newest pricing to stay in hospital and go thru this program ?

    I have neck (C-6 /burst / Asia-C Incomplete) injury that left me paralyzed but also herniated discus (L4/L5) that possibly need to be "corrected" in Tongren to allow full effect of 6:6:6 walking program - is this further complicating my case or people in Tongren dealing with this?

    Thanks a Lot!
    p.s. Hope David is doing better every day!!
    www.MiracleofWalk.com

    Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary
    to what we know about nature
    Saint Augustine

  4. #4

    has it been worth it?

    My son feels it has definitely been worth it, even though he has been stuck at Stage 2 of the programme for the last 6 months. He needs to be able to lock his knees reliably and bear all of his own weight while walking. He's getting there. Spasticity seems to be the main problem impeding his progress, and it's been suggested that untethering surgery might help. He is seriously considering it.

    His bowel and bladder function have improved (they have a very interesting therapy for that). His sitting balance is really good compared to what it was when he came here (after three years of continuous and pretty intensive rehab -- I think it all adds up). They don't neglect the OT side, and his hand function has improved a lot.

    I think that this programme is really only for those who are able to commit to quite a long time -- in my son's case Dr Zhu said right at the start that six months was not going to be enough.

    As my son is very single-minded about his recovery and our family and most of his friends are already based in this part of the world, he is happy to stay on here another six months, a year, two years ... as long as he is still making progress. We all feel that prolonged, intensive training -- necessarily including the overground walking therapy that is the hallmark of the programme here -- COULD result in very substantial recovery. No one can state with certainty that it will not because so few people have had the opportunity to try. It's often said on these forums that not everybody can be a Pat Rummerfield but for those who want to go for it, why not?

    Oh, and I forgot to mention -- David LOVES it here. The doctors, nurses and physiotherapists treat us like family and the atmosphere is great.

    I promise I'll write more later -- time to get back to the hospital for the afternoon session!

  5. #5

    Answer to Comad's questions: coming to Kunming

    Anyone interested in enrolling in the programme here may send a private message to me and I'll translate your enquiry and send it on to Dr Zhu.

    Dr Zhu always asks to see MRIs and she also likes to see pictures or preferably videos of people doing whatever they can do.

    The hospital does do a complete check-up on arriving patients, including MRIs and X rays. In my son's case they were concerned that his knee joints might not be able to take full weight bearing so they brought in a joint specialist to examine him. All of this was not expensive, especially compared to prices in the west (I think the brain / spine MRIs came to less than 100 US$).

    The hospital is working out the price for a full package -- 6 hours of rehab 6 days a week, accommodation on the hospital's "VIP" floor, the services of a caregiving assistant and food. It's not final but they're aiming for around 20,000 RMB a month.

    Comad, the hospital has excellent orthopaedic surgeons and neurosurgeons (the programme's neurosurgeon Dr Liu Yansheng is reputed to the best in the world).

    Thanks for your good wishes for David -- he is indeed getting better every day.

  6. #6
    Mamadavid,
    Thanks for the information. I feel bad about posting this, and on the one hand I really admire the hard work you and your family are putting into trying to get David more recovery. On the other hand, what you describe exemplifies, in my mind, the medical tourism aspect of intense rehab that I touch on here: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=225017 and the troubling focus on rehab when judging therapies in clinical trial here: http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=227182
    For those who won't have enough patience to bear with me: I am not against rehab. In conjunction with a true biological cure it will be key. And while I made gains in rehab (I'm young, fit, and pushed myself in rehab as hard and as long as anyone else I saw there when newly injured) after a year I was what I am today: an SCI individual with a complete thoracic injury.
    I know with my level of injury I perhaps have some opportunities that others don't but reading this:
    Quote Originally Posted by mamadavid View Post
    My son feels it has definitely been worth it, even though he has been stuck at Stage 2 of the programme for the last 6 months...His sitting balance is really good compared to what it was when he came here (after three years of continuous and pretty intensive rehab -- I think it all adds up).....I think that this programme is really only for those who are able to commit to quite a long time -- in my son's case Dr Zhu said right at the start that six months was not going to be enough......As my son is very single-minded about his recovery and our family and most of his friends are already based in this part of the world, he is happy to stay on here another six months, a year, two years ... as long as he is still making progress. We all feel that prolonged, intensive training -- necessarily including the overground walking therapy that is the hallmark of the programme here -- COULD result in very substantial recovery. No one can state with certainty that it will not because so few people have had the opportunity to try. It's often said on these forums that not everybody can be a Pat Rummerfield but for those who want to go for it, why not?
    ....makes me really sad. A patient has been bamboozled by the rehab community if they think that when they have an injury similar in severity to Pat Rummersfield they have a similar prognosis in terms of recovery. Two months, six months, 2 years, ten years of rehab...Sure, why not?
    This is ludicrous...I know how tough it is to make a meaningful life after SCI. But being a 24/7-365 for 10 years rehab patient is not one of them. At least in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by mamadavid View Post
    Oh, and I forgot to mention -- David LOVES it here. The doctors, nurses and physiotherapists treat us like family and the atmosphere is great.
    This is also kind of indicative of that. I've know many people who spend so much time in a hospital or rehab center that they become uncomfortable functioning in society at large. Again, I know its difficult to integrate back into society.... I can only imagine how much more difficult with higher levels of injuries, lack of independence, perhaps cognitive effects and TBI on top of that. But, as saintly as many therapists, doctors, and nurses are (and some will be my lasting friends for life), they do not replace your real friends, family and life. I don't know if this is the case here but I just wanted to mention it because I think it's why may SCI opt for permanent rehab: socially, it's a controlled and comfortable situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by mamadavid View Post
    The hospital is working out the price for a full package -- 6 hours of rehab 6 days a week, accommodation on the hospital's "VIP" floor, the services of a caregiving assistant and food. It's not final but they're aiming for around 20,000 RMB a month...
    Thanks for your good wishes for David -- he is indeed getting better every day.
    If that doesn't smack of medical tourism, I don't know what does.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    4,993
    Blog Entries
    1
    Medical Tourism where they provide MRI's, CT scans,neurosurgery, ortho surgery, PT, OT, a pleasant atmosphere long term, for not too much money?

    Sounds like what should be happening in our own medical system to me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    4,993
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mamadavid View Post
    My son feels it has definitely been worth it, even though he has been stuck at Stage 2 of the programme for the last 6 months. He needs to be able to lock his knees reliably and bear all of his own weight while walking. He's getting there. Spasticity seems to be the main problem impeding his progress, and it's been suggested that untethering surgery might help. He is seriously considering it.

    His bowel and bladder function have improved (they have a very interesting therapy for that). His sitting balance is really good compared to what it was when he came here (after three years of continuous and pretty intensive rehab -- I think it all adds up). They don't neglect the OT side, and his hand function has improved a lot.

    I think that this programme is really only for those who are able to commit to quite a long time -- in my son's case Dr Zhu said right at the start that six months was not going to be enough.

    As my son is very single-minded about his recovery and our family and most of his friends are already based in this part of the world, he is happy to stay on here another six months, a year, two years ... as long as he is still making progress. We all feel that prolonged, intensive training -- necessarily including the overground walking therapy that is the hallmark of the programme here -- COULD result in very substantial recovery. No one can state with certainty that it will not because so few people have had the opportunity to try. It's often said on these forums that not everybody can be a Pat Rummerfield but for those who want to go for it, why not?

    Oh, and I forgot to mention -- David LOVES it here. The doctors, nurses and physiotherapists treat us like family and the atmosphere is great.

    I promise I'll write more later -- time to get back to the hospital for the afternoon session!
    Can you tell us more about the Bowel and Bladder?

  9. #9
    Senior Member mcferguson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    153
    [QUOTE=mamadavid;1710366]
    His bowel and bladder function have improved (they have a very interesting therapy for that). [QUOTE]


    can you please explain what that therapy is? maybe its something i can try at home.
    T5/6, ASIA A, injured 30 Nov 08
    Future SCI Alumnus.
    I don't want to dance in the rain, I want to soar above the storm.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ay2012 View Post
    ....makes me really sad. A patient has been bamboozled by the rehab community if they think that when they have an injury similar in severity to Pat Rummersfield they have a similar prognosis in terms of recovery.
    Did anyone from the medical community tell David (or does anyone from the medical/rehab community tell ANYONE) that just because Pat Rummerfield recovered, they can too?
    The majority of people I work with were told the exact opposite. Every day people are told to just flat out give up and live their lives. How many people do you know have been told by a doctor or PT "always keep trying"?
    I have many clients with full-time jobs and families, who still come to work at our facility 1-3 times a week. Some of them want to maintain the function they have, some want to keep trying to get better, and some just like doing more than they could at a commercial gym.
    We make no guarantees as to what kind of function people will get back, but we are here if people want the opportunity to try. What is wrong with that? For the record, just because you were a complete injury a year after working your ass off in rehab does not mean that will be the case for everyone. Forget about walking, we have clients who were 2+ years post injury that have improved their seated balance and upper body strength enough that they can now transfer themselves and drive. Is this meaningless function? Have these people wasted their time and money?

    Its the same thing in Kunming - they make absolutely no guarantees at all, yet they provide an opportunity for people who want to try to get better. And I would guess that all these people have already decided before they even go there that it would be worth trying. Again, I ask, what is wrong or unethical about that?

    If Kunming or gyms like the one I work at were were going out like travelling salesmen trying to recruit people, offering "secret" methods that guarantee recovery, I would see the ethical issue with that. But that is NOT what the Kunming program is doing.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-02-2011, 11:30 PM
  2. Question about Study in Kunming
    By BobDylanfan in forum Cure
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-04-2010, 09:52 AM
  3. National programme manager of Kaleidoscope Programme/New Zealand
    By Max in forum Recreation, Sports, Travel, & Hobbies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-29-2008, 06:47 PM
  4. zhu hui kunming
    By fti in forum Cure
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-10-2008, 09:29 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •