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Thread: New Chair Advice? Another TR? ZR? ZRA?

  1. #1

    New Chair Advice? Another TR? ZR? ZRA?

    Hi all,

    I've been skimming through threads but I thought I'd ask a few questions (my bad if they're repeats).

    Got my first chair about a year ago. I lucked out with a used Tilite YR (TR youth version) that was almost exactly my fit. Now I'm qualifying for a (mostly) government-funded, new, chair and I'm wondering what exactly I should do...

    - I like my TR - it's pretty low maintenance, I was considering the ZRA for its adjustability (still being so new) but I'm worried I won't keep up with parts going, the only dealer in town is quite out of the way, bike shops have been a lifesaver really.
    - Is the ZRA really more work maintenance-wise? Note that we have pretty insane winters here and I roll around in snow and slush everyday Nov-Apr. My casters managed to break on me in -40oC (-40F?) weather but the rest held up fairly well, I'm thinking the less breakable parts the better.
    - Also, how does the ZR and ZRA compare in flex and absorbing shocks? I'm pretty rough on my chair and I'm worried I will hate a ZR or ZRA vs. my current TR (the difference in price isn't much here - not really a factor).
    - The only dealer within hours of me doesn't have demos either...I'm guessing here.
    - I've only seen a couple TiLites around here, everyone I know has Quickies, my OT doesn't seem to see alot either, not sure who to ask.

    Also...
    - I'm currently in a 13X13 with 80o front angle which works well-ish, aside from destroying cupboards trying to reach stuff (16.5 front seat height, 14.5 rear) and I'm assuming if the bottom was more tucked in, it would help? The only part of my frame that's scratched is between where the footplate adjusts and the casters tubes are welded...if that makes sense, it always seems to hit stuff first. At least for the fact that if the higher parts are going to bump into stuff first, at least I can see it, I judge distance better higher up it seems?

    SO. I was trying to figure out a way to get an 85o front angle without having my feet fall off the footplate, the rep wasn't especially helpful, well he was, sort of but I figured I'd ask here. Would getting a 14'' depth and 85o angle instead approximate what I have now but with the bottom part of the footrest more tucked in?

    Also, is there anyway to fit 25'' wheels on a 13X13 or 13X14 frame? My push to lock brakes can't move anymore as it is with 24's. Would scissor breaks help? (I've been thinking about switching anyway).
    - I'm definitely too low to the ground at 16.5 front seat height and 14.5 rear seat height, I would gladly go with higher but that will make me tippier no? More camber could help maybe? I don't know.
    - My OT also seems to think 2'' of dump is crazy too much, actually, I wouldn't mind the same or more even (would the ZRA help with this???). So do I just go with what works for me or listen to them?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by twistties; 06-05-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistties View Post
    - My OT also seems to think 2'' of dump is crazy too much, actually, I wouldn't mind the same or more even (would the ZRA help with this???). So do I just go with what works for me or listen to them?
    What leve are you? 2 inches of dump in the frame pretty extreme. Are there big balance issues you are dealing with?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Monoski View Post
    What leve are you? 2 inches of dump in the frame pretty extreme. Are there big balance issues you are dealing with?
    Actually I don't have any balance issues really, I have pretty good core muscles (I've been thrown forward quite a few times - then again I don't weigh much either) and the ride forward cushion seems to cancel alot of it vs. my previous cushion (maybe that's just me). I'll probably stick to what I have, I guess I have no idea what's ''standard'' or not.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    2" dump is not extreme at all, I have 2.5 inches and wish I had a little more. Some people go as much as 5 inches, its what works for the individual.

    I would go for what you know works for you, not what they're trying to convince you to go with. Consider their recommendations and then make a decision based on what you know will work better for your body. Everyone's needs are different.

    For the issue with depth, you should determine your current chairs OFL, if you search the forum there are threads on OFL. Then request the OFL in the CAD for the new chair, and you can either make sure the new one matches your current chair if you don't want to make changes there. You may need .75" added in depth to match perfectly.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  5. #5
    I have intact trunk control, can stand, and I like 3.5" dump so when I'm speeding downhill and stop quickly, I don't slide forward on my cushion.

    I have had my AeroZ1 for about 2.5 years now and have been working to decide what my next chair will be (probably a TR or ZR). I am an old man, so the only dimension I expect to change is my gut . If you're still growing, you may want to consider looking into an ICON. It is getting wonderful user reviews (and they are based in Canada).

    Because my needs are simple, my activity level is quite conservative, and my bones are done growing, my chair dimensions/needs are very unlikely to change, so I would benefit little from having the extensive configureability of an ICON. But a young person might benefit greatly from having an ICON, which can grow with you and be configured/adapted quickly to different applications/functions. Jeff Adams, co-inventor of the ICON, is a regular poster here. I'm sure he'd be eager to discuss the ICON with you.

    The OFL (Occupied Frame Length) mentioned by Lin above allows the front-frame angle to be somewhat independent of the seat depth.

    Studying order forms will reveal what size wheels and rear seat heights are compatible. It varies even among chairs from the same manufacturer.

    I live in the rust belt (Nebraska), so I immediately swapped out nearly all TiLite's stock fasteners (black and zinc) with Chrome Grade 8 and 304 Stainless Steel so my chair would continue to be adjustable - it's worked great.

    The more fasteners (the fewer welds) a chair has the more maintenance will be required. I'm seriously considering getting a welded backrest on my next chair. (Note: ICON users claim that ICON's fasteners are higher quality than most). Experienced users on CCC post recommendations for fully welded chairs (but if your needs change, the chair ends up in storage).
    Last edited by chasmengr; 06-06-2013 at 12:17 AM.
    Chas
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    I am a person with mild/moderate hexaparesis (impaired movement in 4 limbs, head, & torso) caused by RRMS w/TM C7&T7 incomplete.

    "I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but what I don't think you realize is that what you heard is not what I meant."
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  6. #6
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    He's not still growing, just a small guy. If I remember correctly from previous posts he's somewhere in his 20's.
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  7. #7
    Suspended Andy's Avatar
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    If I am reading your post right, you are trying to get more angle on the front with your feet not falling off? Look into a reversed footplate which makes the footplate the most forward part of the chair. TiLite wants $$ to weld that the opposite way, alternatively you can get the angle adjustable version and bolt it on backwards, that's how mine is. Makes a great battering ram to open doors and push things around.

    TR vs. ZR. My input on this is consider how you are going to break the chair down and use in a car or whatnot. I'm used to having a readily accessible grab point to load the frame in my car with my TR. Going to a ZR or other monotube frame might cause issue with where to quickly grab the frame with no fuss. Thus if I ever actually order another chair, it will probably be a TR just for ease of use...fancy monotube designs would throw off my speed.

  8. #8
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    Hey Twistties,


    When determining dump, the depth of the seat is a critical factor. The shorter the seat, the greater the incline per inch of dump. 2” of dump on a 13” deep chair is about 9 degrees. Which is approximately equivalent to 3” of dump on an 18” deep chair. I would consider 9 degrees to fall in the range of typical rather than extreme, personal preference aside. Dump lowers your center of gravity along the “y” axis and will reduce forward shear shift and help overall stability. (Too much dump can be a pain if you climb a lot of ramps.)
    If you look at the pics I sent you a while back of that Colours chair, those are 25s on a 13 x 13 with about 1 ½” axle COG. The wheel locks are all the way forward to the start of the downtube bend. If you wanted to move the COG forward, you would have to lose the wheel locks. I once had to put wheel locks on my 16 x 14 TR with 25s and a 4” COG. They wouldn’t fit on the seat tube, so I installed them on the boxing tube. Works great if you have the trunk to reach down that far.
    IMHO, you can’t beat the TR. The boxed frame is so much more rigid and responsive compared to a Z. The ride is definitely a lot stiffer, and you’ll feel the bumps more, because the boxing tubes transfer caster shock to the rear. But the only real adjustments are the back angle and axle COG. And I agree with Chasmengr, my next chair will have welded back canes and a welded footrest tube. The only thing I ever change is the axle COG.


    Stubbie

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by twistties View Post
    Hi all,

    I've been skimming through threads but I thought I'd ask a few questions (my bad if they're repeats).

    Got my first chair about a year ago. I lucked out with a used Tilite YR (TR youth version) that was almost exactly my fit.

    I like my TR - !
    If your YR fit almost exaxtly to you why you want an adjutable ZRA?
    Order a TR with the measurements that you think you have to change to make it fit perfect.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    He's not still growing, just a small guy. If I remember correctly from previous posts he's somewhere in his 20's.
    Correct, mid-20's here. I probably confused people with the YR... and why it's a YR and not a TR since they are virtually identical? No idea, also, a rigid frame in a youth model, again who knows it was a demo. But it worked for me

    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    The OFL (Occupied Frame Length) mentioned by Lin above allows the front-frame angle to be somewhat independent of the seat depth.

    Studying order forms will reveal what size wheels and rear seat heights are compatible. It varies even among chairs from the same manufacturer..
    Thanks for the tips, on the Icon. As far as I've told it's not covered here (yet?) and quite honestly, I'd be nervous to move away from Tilite since it worked. I did try and figure out the OFL...apparently I'm rusty with my math. I'll try again. I'd hate to mess it up though.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasmengr View Post
    I have intact trunk control, can stand, and I like 3.5" dump so when I'm speeding downhill and stop quickly, I don't slide forward on my cushion.
    That was one of my problems too, sliding all the time. Stubby has a good point though, depth affects the degree of dump, something to keep in mind. I guess the switch from 13'' to 14'' wouldn't be a big difference though.

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