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Thread: Why do I need an icon??

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooley View Post
    There is no such thing as a stupid question but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots. -modified from despair.com

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    The adjustable casters is what I like. In fact I would want them even more adjustable so that you could easily flip them forward or back for outdoor or indoor use.
    You can, similar in concept to Lasher's BT-X.

    Icon has made the "adjustability vs. no adjustability" discussion an issue of preference instead of "newbie vs. professional." Not everyone recognizes that.

    People buy automobiles that have tons of flexibility, various seating/storage configurations, winter vs. summer wheels/tires, etc. Some people buy cars that have zero flexibility, fixed seats, and specific purposes. It's all about what someone finds beneficial.

  3. #13
    It will be a hard marketing problem to solve. It is the perfect chair for a persons first wheelchair because of it's flexibility and it would be foolish not to claim (and market to that demographic). However, I consider myself an "experienced" user and when I got my Icon I basically just sat it next to my Zra and matched it up to that and was good to go. Once every bolt is tightened down (and the bolts are quality ones, I will not be going to McMaster-Carr and replacing them like I did on my Zra) the chair is rock solid. No squeaks or give. However the reassurance and weight savings of a welded vs clamp/screw setup will be a hard thing to overcome from a marketing standpoint, and it will compounded by the "beginner chair thing".

    It might be an idea to remove some of the adjustability and market a "Icon Pro" or something for that market.

    ETA: I bought my Icon, I don't work for them or have any official or unofficial relationship with the company.

    Quote Originally Posted by -scott- View Post
    You can, similar in concept to Lasher's BT-X.

    Icon has made the "adjustability vs. no adjustability" discussion an issue of preference instead of "newbie vs. professional." Not everyone recognizes that.

    People buy automobiles that have tons of flexibility, various seating/storage configurations, winter vs. summer wheels/tires, etc. Some people buy cars that have zero flexibility, fixed seats, and specific purposes. It's all about what someone finds beneficial.

  4. #14
    Senior Member tooley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Essie View Post
    the most important concepts in life are learned by the time we reach the first grade.

    to the OP - if it will be the last chair you'll ever own buy the Icon. No matter how your body changes or the obstacles you face it is the most configurable chair on the market. If you do multiple car transfers a day (and have 30+ years left to live) don't even consider it. Wrestling it into the car will leave you wishing you spent your money on a PantheraX, Lasher BT-Mg or toto's new Oracing SL.

    Good luck.

  5. #15
    Weight: My personal chair weighs 22 pounds, all in, with wheels (Topolino wheels, carbon seat, no folding back, no sideguards, FrogLegs thin front wheels, carbon back).

    The Icon is lighter than a similarly equipped ZRA, and my personal Icon is lighter than my own personal ZR (2005 model year) - we are VERY, VERY weight competitive when you compare similarly equipped chairs (even setting aside the fact that when I say similarly equipped chairs, I'm not even asking you to take into account that the Icon has suspension when none of the other superlight chairs do).

    Suspension: The suspension is a game changer. I was injured in 1979. I've had back pain since 1979 1/2. Since I've had a chair with suspension, it's been a lot better. It's not gone, but the suspension makes a massive difference.

    If suspension appeals to you (the Icon suspension works really, really well), then there is no other chair in the market that you should consider seriously.

    Adjustability: If adjustability appeals to you, the Icon adjusts in more ways and in better ways than other chairs in the market do.

    If adjustability doesn't speak to you, please consider that if you gain any weight, if you lose any weight, if you change your cushion for one that is thicker or thinner, your chair might not fit over time.

    Also ask yourself if you think there might be a chance in a day or a week or a month or a year that you might want to try a different configuration, or put off-road wheels on the chair, or change the size of your front wheels, or sit with your feet a little more or a little less tucked under.....if there is any significant chance, the risk of getting a chair that can't change over time seems at least worth considering.

    Modularity: It allows you to replace damaged components, or parts that have seen wear and tear (scratches on the castor arms for example) without having to weld, or send your whole frame back to be reworked.

    If you buy the base chair (all standard parts, wire wheels, laminate seat etc) you can upgrade them over time to have all the bells and whistles.

    If you buy the base level from any of the other manufacturers, you can never upgrade to their flagship model.

    Customer service: Icon is owned and run by people who use wheelchairs. We will always go the extra mile because we understand how much of a difference equipment makes in people's lives.


    Icon fits.

  6. #16
    Senior Member IsMaisin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    The adjustable casters is what I like. In fact I would want them even more adjustable so that you could easily flip them forward or back for outdoor or indoor use.
    Edit: I got confused and talked about camber instead of caster. I have fiddled with the caster quite a bit too. Two 5mm hex bolts hold each caster fork in place. You can rotate the angle and slide the height up and down quite easily. It takes longer than adjusting the camber because you have to match the two sides to each other. I like to use a level, but then I'm a nit-picker. Once I find my "perfect" settings, I will scratch a small mark where the bottom of the clamp goes to make it easy for me to require my setting.

    Using a 5mm hex wrench, I can change the camber angle by simply unscrewing one bolt per wheel, placing the bolt in another of the four presets (0˚, 2˚, 4˚, 6˚). It takes me far less than a minute to switch angles.



    This picture shows the camber set at 4˚. The bolts are the two closest to center below the red air shock adjustment dial.

    I carry a Park AWS-10 hex set in my under seat bag. With just that I can make every adjustment to the chair except the rear seat height (1" Socket Wrench) and the air pressure in the shock. And, of course, you need other tools if you want to tighten your spokes or move your push rims in or out - but both of those projects require wheel disassembly.
    Last edited by IsMaisin; 05-24-2013 at 07:38 PM. Reason: To correct my stupidly mixing up camber and caster.
    Played with bombs- No SCI, Brain Damage enough that I require a chair and a caregiver.

  7. #17
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    um, that's camber, not the caster angle.

  8. #18
    Senior Member IsMaisin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jschism View Post
    um, that's camber, not the caster angle.
    D'Oh. Ok, gonna edit that. Thanks for the catch.
    Played with bombs- No SCI, Brain Damage enough that I require a chair and a caregiver.

  9. #19
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    The adjustable casters is what I like. In fact I would want them even more adjustable so that you could easily flip them forward or back for outdoor or indoor use.
    I'm interested in the on the fly changeable back angle, easy change camber, casters, front end position (OFL), and suspension. I'd love an Icon someday, it would solve all the problems that limit me in available chairs to fit my needs and then some with the suspension. I think the suspension would be wonderful for my joints and spasms. Maybe someday on ebay
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  10. #20
    Here's a perfect example of the adjustability.
    I've been using a low profile roho for many years. Getting a Ride cushion but in the mean time I'm on a jay fusion which is twice the height. In order to keep the same ride height I had to lower the seat pan a couple of inches. I basically reconfigured the whole chair, COG, dump. There's no way I would have been able to do this with any other chair out there. I would have had to buy a new chair because I wouldn't have been able to sit 2" higher. Right there the Icon paid off.

    Personally I'd never sit in a chair without suspension. If you do any wheeling outside it's a back saver.

    I adjust the back angle a few times a day depending on what I'm doing. No way I could go back to a fix angle.

    Customer service is top notch.

    Got my Icon 11 years post injury, been in it for almost 1 1/2 years and have absolutely no regrets. Can't say the same for the others chairs sitting there collecting dust.

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