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Thread: Intermittent Hypoxia Elicits Prolonged Restoration of Motor Function in Human SCI

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by FellowHawkeye View Post
    I rented hypoxico's iht equipment (had to buy mask) which Trumbower uses and I followed the Trumbower Protocol, but I couldn't get down to 80 percent saturation level for at least 4 minutes instead of advised 90 seconds, which is the hypoxic air phase, followed by 90 seconds of regular air breathing. I did this for a week trying to get down to 80 percent quicker and even did it morning and night, but not usually for the full 45 minutes. I experimented and overdid the therapy. Woke up one morning and couldn't walk with my walker or get up from my elevating scooter, which I fairly easily did before. I had stopped using 4-AP cuz the therapy energized me until it didn't. Suddenly my legs felt like lead and I could only walk/rise again when I started taking 4-AP or 4-AP-3-MeOh. Also got a terrible cold and I never ever get colds. Last time I got such a cold was nearly 23 yrs ago right before injury. IHT was a horrible experience maybe cuz I tried too hard to get down to 80 percent and stay there for 90 seconds, which required holding my breath mostly. I think my lungs were too strong for IHT and a sci researcher should've been helping me with it. -Jan
    It definitely sounds like you overdid it, especially if you were doing it twice a day, going for 4 minutes, and/or holding your breath. Keep in mind that in Trumbower's original paper, subjects breathed hypoxic air for 60 or 90 seconds, but the normoxic interval was only 60 seconds for either protocol - so if you breathed normoxic air for too long in between each interval, that could have kept your O2 saturation higher. Additionally, while his paper said that the average O2 sat achieved was approximately 81%, it doesn't say that every subject achieved that for every interval - just that it was an average. More research is going to be done in the future to determine if a particular SpO2 is a necessary target, but that hasn't been established yet.

    I'm curious, did you ever follow either of the protocols exactly as Trumbower outlined them, or did you modify it every time you did IH to attempt to get to 80% saturation? Also, do you know what percent of O2 your hypoxico unit was delivering? If you weren't delivering low enough O2 to yourself, that is another reason your saturation wouldn't go down.

  2. #22
    Would a High Altitude Training Mask help at all? Athletes use them all the time. They're under $100.
    INIMITABLE......look it up.

  3. #23
    I was thinking of getting one to increase my red blood cell count to help heal my pressure sores.
    INIMITABLE......look it up.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno360 View Post
    Would a High Altitude Training Mask help at all? Athletes use them all the time. They're under $100.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno360 View Post
    I was thinking of getting one to increase my red blood cell count to help heal my pressure sores.
    I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. Those masks don't actually reduce the inspired percent of O2 that you breathe...they just provide resistance, thus making it more difficult to breathe. It may increase the strength of your respiratory muscles, but that's it. It almost certainly won't increase your red blood cell count, and even if it did, that wouldn't do anything for your pressure sores. In order for your pressure sores to heal, more blood has to get to them in the first place, i.e. more blood has to be circulating to that area. Sometimes, hyperbaric chambers can help heal sores too, but as with anything else in life, it isn't a guarantee.

  5. #25

    Tomsonite

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. Those masks don't actually reduce the inspired percent of O2 that you breathe...they just provide resistance, thus making it more difficult to breathe. It may increase the strength of your respiratory muscles, but that's it. It almost certainly won't increase your red blood cell count, and even if it did, that wouldn't do anything for your pressure sores. In order for your pressure sores to heal, more blood has to get to them in the first place, i.e. more blood has to be circulating to that area. Sometimes, hyperbaric chambers can help heal sores too, but as with anything else in life, it isn't a guarantee.
    I see now I was breathing normoxic air too long, 90 secs instead of 60, so that must've made it more difficult to get the sat rate down. I had the lever fully open and on "21" level, where it was supposed to be. While I overdid it and not correctly, resulting in the bad cold and loss of mobility until I began 4-AP again, I am finding it much easier to get out of my scooter with the elevating seat and my steps are stronger. Still got spasticity, but don't need a boost to get up. Very easy push on walker. So I'm thinking IHT helped some and could help more if done correctly. It's either that or the Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM supplements I started taking twice a day. Probably it's both helping, plus the 4-AP and continuous gabapentin for eliminating nerve pain. -Jan

  6. #26
    Senior Member trekker6's Avatar
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    just an fyi, I'm doing a study at the Miami project using trans cranial magnetic stimulation, they're also using intermittent hypoxia using 9% oxygen, I started a thread on it in the cure section.
    "Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment? And I think I know your answer." Ronald Reagan"

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by FellowHawkeye View Post
    I see now I was breathing normoxic air too long, 90 secs instead of 60, so that must've made it more difficult to get the sat rate down. I had the lever fully open and on "21" level, where it was supposed to be. While I overdid it and not correctly, resulting in the bad cold and loss of mobility until I began 4-AP again, I am finding it much easier to get out of my scooter with the elevating seat and my steps are stronger. Still got spasticity, but don't need a boost to get up. Very easy push on walker. So I'm thinking IHT helped some and could help more if done correctly. It's either that or the Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM supplements I started taking twice a day. Probably it's both helping, plus the 4-AP and continuous gabapentin for eliminating nerve pain. -Jan
    So you were breathing 21% O2 during the hypoxic intervals? If so, you weren't getting any hypoxia. Normal atmospheric air only contains 21% O2. I'm not sure how the hypoxico works so I'm not sure which lever you're referring to, but the unit should be set to deliver 8% or 9% O2 during the hypoxic intervals.

  8. #28

    correction

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    So you were breathing 21% O2 during the hypoxic intervals? If so, you weren't getting any hypoxia. Normal atmospheric air only contains 21% O2. I'm not sure how the hypoxico works so I'm not sure which lever you're referring to, but the unit should be set to deliver 8% or 9% O2 during the hypoxic intervals.
    No, it was 13 percent oxygen during hypoxic intervals which the lever fully on made happen and 21 percent normal air w/o mask on. If I'd bought the High Altitude Adapter (200 dollars about) then the oxygen would've been 9 percent during hypoxic intervals. Terribly disappointing. So expensive. Where does it describe the Trumbower Protocol? My salesman told me it wrong, it seems, but I need proof. Could you give me a link? Thanks! Maybe I can get a free rental. I wonder if a High Altitude Adapter, getting down to 9 percent, is much more beneficial? -Jan

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FellowHawkeye View Post
    No, it was 13 percent oxygen during hypoxic intervals which the lever fully on made happen and 21 percent normal air w/o mask on. If I'd bought the High Altitude Adapter (200 dollars about) then the oxygen would've been 9 percent during hypoxic intervals. Terribly disappointing. So expensive. Where does it describe the Trumbower Protocol? My salesman told me it wrong, it seems, but I need proof. Could you give me a link? Thanks! Maybe I can get a free rental. I wonder if a High Altitude Adapter, getting down to 9 percent, is much more beneficial? -Jan
    Ahhhhhh I see what you mean now. As I said I'm not familiar with the hypoxico unit, we use a different system where I'm at, that's why I asked all the questions.

    Yes, if it was only 13% during the hypoxic intervals, that may well not be enough, especially for someone who is in decent aerobic shape - do you walk or exercise regularly?

    Here are links to two of Trumbower's studies:
    http://nnr.sagepub.com/content/26/2/163.long
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897437/

    In both his studies, he did either 1 or 1.5 minute intervals of 9% O2 alternated with 1 minute intervals of room air. The exact device he used is the "HYP-123" as described in the "Methods" section of each article.

  10. #30

    thanks, tomsonite!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsonite View Post
    Ahhhhhh I see what you mean now. As I said I'm not familiar with the hypoxico unit, we use a different system where I'm at, that's why I asked all the questions.

    Yes, if it was only 13% during the hypoxic intervals, that may well not be enough, especially for someone who is in decent aerobic shape - do you walk or exercise regularly?

    Here are links to two of Trumbower's studies:
    http://nnr.sagepub.com/content/26/2/163.long
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897437/

    In both his studies, he did either 1 or 1.5 minute intervals of 9% O2 alternated with 1 minute intervals of room air. The exact device he used is the "HYP-123" as described in the "Methods" section of each article.
    That's very helpful and I'll share with the Hypoxico salesman. Now are these HYP-123 devices available to buy or rent? Do you need a High Altitude Adapter with it? IHT is so exciting cuz it's natural and effective for me...Jan

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