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Thread: Wise - Is there any hope of returning B/B/S to T12-L1SCI's?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Kaprikorn1's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Wise Young:

    kap,


    When the cells become available, there are several problems that must be solved before human embryonic stem cells can be used to treat human spinal cord injury.



    2. Reducing probability of stem cell tumors. There are currently three ways of doing this right now. The first is to avoid growing the cells for long periods of time in culture. These are called early-passage cells. The second is to pre-differentiate the cells with retinoic acid and then with sonic hedgehog.

    Wise.
    Wise...Man I love that game...used to play it on my old Sega...now they have it for my PS2!!! I've only saved the princess once but that Sonic IS a stud.

    Seriously...let me look up some of those words I don't know and get back to you with any further questions.

    Kap

    accept no substitutes

  2. #12
    Kap,

    I don't really expect people to know details of stem cell biology because it is so new. However, people with spinal cord injury should know more about their bodies and particularly about their spinal cords. I find it fascinating that most people know their games (or cars) than they know about their own body. I once had a student who asked me where the spinal cord was. This flabbergasted me.

    By the way, some of the information in books about the spinal cord is wrong. For example, Frank Netter, one of the most celebrated of medical illustrators and an alumnus of NYU Medical School, has a famous color picture of a human body with a map of sensory dermatomes. It was wrong and several generations of doctors were probably misled by this picture. In fact, you see this picture still everywhere


    Here are another set of maps that are slightly more accurate but they are also wrong



    Compare these against maps that are used in the American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) standard. By the way, I relabeled the ASIA chart below because the ones that are available are so hard to read. Note the following major differences between the Netter and the ASIA chart. Netter had the following dermatomes wrong.

    • The C2 dermatome does not include the ears.
    • The C3 dermatome goes all the way to the clavicles.
    • The C4 dermatome is below the clavicles.
    • The C5 dermatome is limited to the upper arm, is not present on the chest, and does not extend all the way to the wrist.
    • The C6 dermatome is present only in the forearm and is not present in the upper arm or shoulder.
    • The C7 dermatome splits the ring finger (by the way, the ASIA dermatome is wrong in this respect).
    • The C8 dermatome is limited to the lateral aspect of the hand and does not extend into the forearm or upper arm. It splits the ring finger.
    • The T1 dermatome is not present of the chest and is limited to the forarm and does not extend to the upper arm.
    • The T2 dermatome extends to the upper arm.
    • The L3 dermatome includes the knee.
    • The L4 dermatome is limited only to the medial aspect of the lower leg.
    • The L5 dermatome includes the lateral aspect o the lower leg and the medial dorsal aspect of the foot.
    • The S1 dermatome is limited to the lateral aspect of the foot and just above the heel. It does not extend all the way up the leg and the buttock.
    • The S2 dermatome comes to mid calf and does not go all the way into the foot or up into the buttocks. It also contributes to the sensation in the penis.
    • The S3 dermatome surrounds the anus and also innervates the penis/scrotal region.


    Wise.

    [This message was edited by Wise Young on 05-12-05 at 09:52 AM.]
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  3. #13
    Dr Young,

    I am still pretty dumb about this, I am a T12 incomplete. Does this map show what usaully is affected by the injury like myself the t12 on down or what vertebra has to be injured for this function to be affected?

    Thank's
    Doug

  4. #14
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Dr Young, do you think that there is a better (sooner) chance of improvement from a mechanical device such as this: Implant then from stem cell? I seem to remember a post a few months ago about researchers at Duke having similar success with an implant. I tried the Interstim device but it didn't work - but it also wasn't designed for SCI's. I also realize this is only for the bladder - but it's a step in the right direction.

    Thanks,
    Mike

    T12 Incomplete - Walking with Crutches, Injured in Oct 2003

  5. #15
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    nothing is going to come to fruition in the next several years. I heard this in 2000, and everything seems to have stagnated. We're not going to get help in the rest of this decade, and maybe the next. In regards to e stem cells, the NIH has already made up it's mind to slow research to a near halt, with no urgency whatsoever. There comes a point when, like it or not, it is out of our hands. The lack of any distinct therapies has been truly devastating.

    sherman brayton

  6. #16
    I am trying to write an article to answer all your questions. I will post soon.

    Please, everybody, there are many solutions that will return function for people with lumbosacral spinal cord injuries. It is not a time to say that nothing will help. While I understand that people are impatient, it is also not the time to something irreversible until you understand the situation clearly.

    Wise.

  7. #17
    What about mid thoracic injuries Wise?

    People are impatient because of their wasted lives - each day is precious life lost to this terrible condition.

  8. #18
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    i've just about had it! I'm pissing blood today, my right foot is dark blue, I feel sick, while everyone else seems to be getting the chance to be happy. Everyone deserves happiness in their life, at least at some point, and i cannot be happy where I am now. I'm hearing alot more bad news than good nowadays.

    sherman brayton

  9. #19
    Originally posted by brayton:

    i've just about had it! I'm pissing blood today, my right foot is dark blue, I feel sick, while everyone else seems to be getting the chance to be happy. Everyone deserves happiness in their life, at least at some point, and i cannot be happy where I am now. I'm hearing alot more bad news than good nowadays.

    sherman brayton
    sherman,
    Please call your medical provider.
    Sounds like you have a UTI.
    And you need to check on your foot. But with flaccid paralysis even when you are very young...the feet and legs change colors all
    the time. But if this is something out of the ordinary..please have it checked out.
    Sorry you are feeling so bad.

    "A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk foreward." FDR

  10. #20
    great chart dr wise and great information.
    my worse neuro pain is in my big toe , and also in the toes i remember saying to my pain management doc it was from my L5 and he said no it was from the L4, which i never understood.. i had surgery and damage at l4/l5/ s1..

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