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Thread: Inclined Bed Therapy (IBT) How is everyone?

  1. #71
    There is one big problem in this thread. You cant claim or take the word "cure" in here.

    Andrew,
    I dont want to say that everything you are talking about is wrong and dumb but I have to say that probably the only reason , people benefit of IBT is the fact that they feel better in general when they do this. Its also hard for me to believe that there is a medical based effect that got these people better. But if you believe in your theory then go ahead , because everyone should do things which he or her believes in.....

    KK11

  2. #72
    KK1 I can't remember me saying cure but I can remember saying significant reversal of spinal cord injury using Inclined Bed Therapy. How many people have been kept on a flat bed for weeks / months after initial injury? Is this still normal practice? And if not why not?
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  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by nrf View Post
    perhaps you can give us a list of people who have had their SCI cured using IBT?
    Perhaps these people who have tested IBT for spinal cord injury have already shared their results on the Carecure Forum along with others who tilted their beds and began to report significant improvements before the moderators decided to lock the threads and the forum bullies took their toll on people trying to be heard.

    Try to ignore the rants when searching for results here and look for those who actually tried IBT rather than Andy-who said he had just to disrupt my research, even though he has never slept on an incline bed and probably never will! Right Andy?

    A lot of people have hurled hateful insults and I can understand this because if I was spinal cord injured, I would probably be bitter and closed minded too.

    However the truth about myself is somewhat different to the obscure picture painted by the minority here, but go ahead and form your own opinions, but please don't try to discourage others from daring to explore where some will never think to entertain the possibilities.

    I have since received a response from the Author of the paper on CSF flow.
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  4. #74
    Andrew, what is your registered corporate address and name?

  5. #75
    Suspended Andy's Avatar
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    Still at it after feeling so welcome here, eh? Interesting

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew K Fletcher View Post
    The video shown shows clearly how a downward flowing liquid initiates a return flow. There is no need to hypothesise that Brownian Motion is required to generate a return flow, because BM is multidirectional and totally random so therefore cannot be considered as generating a return flow. It is the molecular drag from the downward flowing CSF which generates the pull required to circulate the CSF. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNJHChtHklg
    The video clearly shows the rationale behind a siphon, as could be explained in any 12 year old's physics class. I agree that Brownian Motion is not needed to explain return flow but it is the paper you link to that concludes that the upward flow is caused by Brownian Motion, hence your statement that there is no need for Brownian Motion to cause a retunrn flow is correct but you are disagreeing with the conclusions that are offere by the paper you link to. Posting a paper that you claim supports your case and then disagreeing with it does not make a convincing case.

    The paper you link to makes many spurious claims about temperature difference and brownian motion being the driving forces behind CSF flow. However, the reality is that CSF flow does not require these forces to maintain its flow:

    http://sikermedical.com/services/mri/mri_csf_flow/

    CSF is not a static fluid; it is continuously flowing back and forth between the head and the spine. The direction of flow is determined by the cardiac cycle. When the heart maximally contracts to pump blood out of its chambers and to the head and body (the systolic phase) the brain becomes engorged with blood, and as it temporarily swells up, ventricles filled with CSF are squeezed. This action pumps CSF downward towards the skull base and spine. Conversely, when the heart relaxes (the diastolic phase) blood fills the atria and the cerebral ventricles relax, which causes CSF flow to reverse its direction and the fluid flows upward from the upper spine and skull base, into the center of the brain again. Because of this cycling spinal fluid is pulsatile; its movement is determined by pulsation of the heart.
    This image shows pulsation within the CSF:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid

    Does that looks as though it is dependent on Brownian Motion and tempearature or density gradients?

    The paper you link to does not make a CASE for IBT improving CSF circulation because it is full of over-reasoned conclusions that ignore the clearly observable driving forces behind CSF circulation.

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew K Fletcher View Post
    The author does not consider the cooling and density changes that must take place where evaporation occurs, I.E. in the nasal passage and the rest of respiratory tract. Also consider the evaporation taking place from the eyes and skin. In trees for example 98% of all the water at the leaves evaporates, this means that the sap has been concentrated by the evaporation by the same amount. This gives us a denser sap at the top of the tree, just as the evaporation from the respiratory tract changes the density of the capillary blood that flows through the lungs.
    This paragraph clearly illustrates a poor grasp of both animal and plant physiology.

    1. The capillary blood in the lungs could have its density affected by evaporative cooling but this blood quickly returns to the heart where its densites will be quickly equalised with other blood through the pumping action of the heart and in the arterial flow to the body, hence this evaporative cooling would not affect the desnity of CSF differentially in different parts of the body.

    2. Making up numbers as if they were fact does you no favours. At any moment in time 98% of the water entering a leaf is not leaving the leaf. Clearly, if the leaf is not wilting then water loss must be being balanced by water uptake. Leaves can lose 100% of their mass through evaporation in an hour but they do this without reducing in mass because at any moment in time water loss is equal to water uptake.

    3. Evaporation from a leaf may affect the xylem density in the leaf, however it would increase the density at the top yet the xylem continues to flow from bottom to top so this does not support your theory that increased density necessarily causes a downward flow. The phloem (aka sap) density is affected by active transport of solutes (sugars) into and out of the phloem at all levels in the plant and consequent of osmosis of water into or out of the phloem rather than by evaporation from the leaves. Phloem has been experimentally demonstrated to be flowing in both directions at the same time within the same phloem vessel.

    Plants do not make the case for IBT, particularly when the reasoning used would achieve a fail grade in a lower secondary school plant physiology module of a biology course.

  8. #78
    Senior Member anban's Avatar
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    ...why did I get an IM??? I'm just a "bitter" spinal cord injured person.

  9. #79
    I wrote to you privately to question where and why you placed your remark about breast milk. I knew you were taking the pee, so did a little digging and found that a small group of people were ridiculing another member and myself in the private members forum.
    Find us on Facebook using inclined bed therapy as a search term.

  10. #80
    Andrew, a legit business would be happy to report their corporate name and address. Why have you not done so?

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