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Thread: Going back to long tabs

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    Have you tried stopping a chair on a dime at the bottom of a 20' ramp at full speed by just pressing from the sides? You can't do it. You will either burn your thumb or crash. Of course, you could keep your speed down. Then surge is actually much better.
    I do it everyday day when I am leaving work and get to the end of the pedestrian bridge to the parking garage (the automatic door openers are soooo slow). I could lock 'em up and skid if I wanted, but Marathon Evos aren't exactly cheap, so I just try to slow it down enough for the doors to open wide enough . Wheelie or no wheelie, braking or no braking, the risk of Repetitive Strain Injury really is minimal when going down hill. Of course it is much greater when having to push uphill. To reduce the possibility of RSI, when I have to park in a space on the ramp of the parking garage, I roll down and take the elevator 1 floor higher. Sometimes, at the end of the day, I'll take the elevator to the floor above even though I'm only a couple of spaces up the ramp for the level below. I have no problems controlling my speed or stopping because there is plenty of surface area available on the the side and the underside of the rim.


  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    Have you tried stopping a chair on a dime at the bottom of a 20' ramp at full speed by just pressing from the sides? You can't do it. You will either burn your thumb or crash. Of course, you could keep your speed down. Then surge is actually much better.
    No one can stop on a dime at the bottom of a 20' ramp at full speed. That would end with the mother of all endos. I hope that isn't your goal. I had a chance to try out natural fit, and it felt like my thumbs were on fire. Surge might work better for me, if the need ever arises, and I'll probably check them out at this years abilities expo in May.The LA expo is the middle of March. It would help if you could try them side by side, and see if they're worth the price.

  3. #73
    Senior Member ~Lin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    when I have to park in a space on the ramp of the parking garage, I roll down and take the elevator 1 floor higher. Sometimes, at the end of the day, I'll take the elevator to the floor above even though I'm only a couple of spaces up the ramp for the level below.
    I do that, one morning I was kinda panicking when all of the disabled parking spaces were taken on all levels of the parking garage at the hospital. I drove around a bit extra trying to find the closest space since I can't do inclines well... And then had a eureka moment that I could park wherever I wanted, zip down to the next level to get on the elevator, and get off the elevator at the floor above where I parked!
    Board Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project working in Education. Feel free to ask me any service dog questions!

    I am not paralyzed. I have a genetic connective tissue disorder with neuro complications and a movement disorder.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    In general, regardless of whose chair we are talking about, you don't want your front casters to fall into holes or strike tall bumps. Sometimes you don't see these holes or bumps until you are upon them. Response time is key. I would not want to compromise even the smallest response time. I think the surge would compromise response time.

    Here is an every day example. Just going down my driveway, here are all the transitions that are obstacles for front casters.

    driveway to sidewalk
    sidewalk to curb
    curb to gutter
    gutter to road

    Going from 4" to 5" casters or going from a 14" to 16" wheelbase doesn't overcome these obstacles. The best option may be a wheelie. I am certain that surge will compromise wheelie control. It's just a question of how much. I am interested in hearing your experience.
    Those "obstacles" are exactly the reason why I went back to the old fashioned 7 and 8 inch casters for my outside chairs.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    Going from 4" to 5" casters or going from a 14" to 16" wheelbase doesn't overcome these obstacles. The best option may be a wheelie. I am certain that surge will compromise wheelie control. It's just a question of how much. I am interested in hearing your experience.
    Well it's difficult to say from pictures but these obstacles look like the ones I would not even slow down when jumping over them. Going down I'd do them on 4 wheels, going up I'd give just a small impulsion to lift the caster wheels by 2 inches but not a real wheelie .

    IMHO, the most important change to overcome these obstacles is low RSH, it means less weight on casters and you can easily do a small wheelie. I wish I had shorter legs so that I could have a lower seat.

    My wife is a c7-8 quad and she has limited wheelie capabilities (i.e. static wheelie not a dynamic one at full speed), when we push in unknown unfriendly places, I usually go before her in 4 wheels so that she can be sure she'll be safe.
    Myself I know that I can do an emergency wheelie if required.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    In general, regardless of whose chair we are talking about, you don't want your front casters to fall into holes or strike tall bumps. Sometimes you don't see these holes or bumps until you are upon them. Response time is key. I would not want to compromise even the smallest response time. I think the surge would compromise response time.

    Here is an every day example. Just going down my driveway, here are all the transitions that are obstacles for front casters.

    driveway to sidewalk
    sidewalk to curb
    curb to gutter
    gutter to road

    Going from 4" to 5" casters or going from a 14" to 16" wheelbase doesn't overcome these obstacles. The best option may be a wheelie. I am certain that surge will compromise wheelie control. It's just a question of how much. I am interested in hearing your experience.
    Going from a 14" to 16" wheelbase does reduce the torque required to power up and over these obstacles. Because there is more friction and less slippage, Surge handrims will probably help just about anyone with ascending these obstacles. Any differences on the descent would be negligible. When considering RSI risk, the Surge would be the better choice in these situations fr almost everyone.


  7. #77
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    Going from a 14" to 16" wheelbase does reduce the torque required to power up and over these obstacles. Because there is more friction and less slippage, Surge handrims will probably help just about anyone with ascending these obstacles. Any differences on the descent would be negligible. When considering RSI risk, the Surge would be the better choice in these situations fr almost everyone.
    Interesting. I am always interested in hearing a well thought out opinion, like yours SCI_OTR.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    I hear you. No doubt that a longer wheelbase is more forgiving. But we are talking about different situations. You are showing a 4" curb that is meant to be there and should be no surprise to the rider, whereas I am showing a 1" bump that is not intended to be there and may surprise the rider. It is this element of surprise that greatly increases an endo risk regardless. The only ways to avoid this risk is to have large pneumatic tires or wheelie the front caster over the bump. At slow speed the surge would help. But at higher speeds, I would want to grab the entire handrail with my entire hand, palm and thumb included. Can't do that at higher speeds with the surge.

    I agree that the ergonomics and the additional friction of surge are beneficial under many conditions. But fast speed into a wheelie is not one of them. I know this is a very specific condition. But I do it often. It still gives me a thrill and I won't give that up, at least not today.
    Last edited by Axle; 02-11-2013 at 09:25 PM.

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