View Poll Results: For yor manual rigid frame chair, does your fork assembly flutter at 15 mph?

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  • yes, but not so bad that it is unsafe

    1 2.70%
  • yes, and it is bad enough to be unsafe

    7 18.92%
  • no

    29 78.38%
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Thread: Danger: TiLite ZR2 front wheel assembly flutters and locks up

  1. #81
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalSteve View Post
    I agree, Brian is not a Troll. Axle is a text book concern troll. You're welcome
    Trolling: Internet behavior meant to anger and take the subject off-topic.

    Sounds like Brian and SoCalSteve share this trait

  2. #82
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lin View Post
    I'm not sticking up for tilite, I've never owned a tilite product. I'm just stating tilite facts and personal opinion. I'll stick up for Quickie, I love my Q7.


    No, I said tilite makes good wheels, and you DIDN'T BUY THEM. You purchased pr1mo wheels, not tilite wheels. What I said was pretty clear. If you want to argue that pr1mo makes both "cheap crap wheels" and quality products, go ahead.

    Wheelchairs come in a wide range of options due to needs and insurance covered. Its been stated you purchased wheels that would be suitable to get around inside the house, but not for outside especially an active user. I agree. I have the same wheels but in a wider option, they were paid for by medicaid who only cares that my wheelchair is suitable to use around the house and not whether or not I get outside with it.
    Lin, Fair enough. I can see where you are coming from. If I had known that these casters are so bad, I would have ordered different ones. But that said, even TiLite agrees that this chair (as configured) should be able to go at the speed of a human running without locking up. So how was I to know. I plead guilty to not being a wheelchair caster expert.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    Good point nonoise. I have not looked very closely to manufacturing issues. I am giving credit to TiLite to do their homework. Otherwise if it means that I have to re-engineer the wheelchair, I don't want the wheelchair. This is not a $500 wheelchair. This is a $5K wheelchair.
    For $5k you could have got a chair that:
    - allows you to easily rotate the castor arms (see the photo below)
    - allows you to extend the footrest away from the rest of the chair.

    Both options increase the distance of the casters from the rear wheels (which has been offered as a reason why your casters flutter).

    And you would have suspension!

    (It's an Icon, before you ask).
    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

  4. #84
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    Trolling: Internet behavior meant to anger and take the subject off-topic.
    I'm only here to help and have never been off-topic in this thread. I don't know what your problem is.

  5. #85
    Getting back to your original question on caster flutter. 4"x.75" plastic casters are not conducive for high speeds. If you want to do higher speeds then buy casters that will do those speeds. IMO more like a 5"x1.5" soft rolls. 5" because they will take the cracks and small debris better. 1.5" because they are a bit heavier and will have less tendency to flutter at the higher speeds.

    Using the casters you have is like taking a good bike with cheap wheels out mountain biking and then complaining that the bike should have handled better.

    Tilite is a great chair. They have their problems like most other chairs do alo. I wouldn't have a Quickie if they gave it to me mainly because I remember how good they used to be before they were bought out by Sunrise and their Customer service sucks.

    You have 84 posts and putting down a guy who spends a lot of time here helping people such as yourself is out of line. Brian is one of many here who definitly are not trolls. I suggest you reel it in a bit and learn.

    You can call me a troll also. Course I only have 40 years in a chair and was part of the evolution that helped get the 57lb. E&J sportchairs to the ones we have now.

    As Brian said, it takes a lot of re-adjustments to get a chair to fit. For many of us in the early days of post sci, it took up to a year to adjust and literally re-make a chair for maximum efficiency.

    You want to go fast, adjust your chair, get the proper equipment and have fun.
    Last edited by Patrick Madsen; 01-22-2013 at 12:07 PM.

  6. #86
    Senior Member grommet's Avatar
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    I don't think you're rambling, I found what you said interesting. I've got 17 years in a chair but the first part was mostly in a powerchair. Learning all about life with a manual these last five. I like your approach, living with an adjustable chair and learning just what works. I started with fixed frame chairs, didn't know any better. I just listened to DME's. Some really don't know what they are talking about and lead me to a paranoia that nobody who isn't using a chair can understand them. The slightest thing on my chair makes a difference in my day and when I ask detailed questions of DME's they seem annoyed or like they are about to roll their eyes because I'm being picky. I am not being picky, I live my fucking life in one of these things and it's not good for my body and everything I do is work. A small change can make a big difference.

    I liked the idea of the Icon being so adjustable, I figured I could really try every combination and learn about what I needed. The Icon didn't work out for me but maybe it would be a good chair for a seating specialist to use for fitting someone. Ultimately I would like something totally welded so I don't have to worry about anything loosening or creaking. It's a tough thing figuring out your measurements and then, you get older and you don't have the same body. I think the real trick is to be rich. You can just keep buying a brand new chair every month or so and try all the combinations, give the remainders away. Giving away my lottery fantasy am I? ;-)

    Brian wrote:
    "That being said If you know EXACTLY what you need then a TR or ZR is a fantastic choice. I've been in a chair for 20 years and am just now starting to feel like I might be ready for a TR. I feel like I might know how to build it so that it would feel just right. But it's still a huge risk. Even if I sent TiLite my current chair and said, "Build it exactly like this" it's gonna have a slightly different weight and balance because of the materials and design. And then I'd be stuck with it.

    I'm rambling"

  7. #87
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Madsen View Post
    Getting back to your original question on caster flutter. 4"x.75" plastic casters are not conducive for high speeds. If you want to do higher speeds then buy casters that will do those speeds. IMO more like a 5"x1.5" soft rolls. 5" because they will take the cracks and small debris better. 1.5" because they are a bit heavier and will have less tendency to flutter at the higher speeds.

    Using the casters you have is like taking a good bike with cheap wheels out mountain biking and then complaining that the bike should have handled better.

    Tilite is a great chair. They have their problems like most other chairs do alo. I wouldn't have a Quickie if they gave it to me mainly because I remember how good they used to be before they were bought out by Sunrise and their Customer service sucks.

    You have 84 posts and putting down a guy who spends a lot of time here helping people such as yourself is out of line. Brian is one of many here who definitly are not trolls. I suggest you reel it in a bit and learn.

    You can call me a troll also. Course I only have 40 years in a chair and was part of the evolution that helped get the 57lb. E&J sportchairs to the ones we have now.

    As Brian said, it takes a lot of re-adjustments to get a chair to fit. For many of us in the early days of post sci, it took up to a year to adjust and literally re-make a chair for maximum efficiency.

    You want to go fast, adjust your chair, get the proper equipment and have fun.
    I am not trying to go blazing fast. I am trying to go at the speed of a person running. Are you saying that a chair with these casters should be kept to walking speed?

    As far as your troll comments goes, I don't go flaming others on their threads. I don't appreciate them flaming me on mine, regardless of who they are and how helpful they may be otherwise.
    Last edited by Axle; 01-22-2013 at 08:15 PM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    I am not trying to go blazing fast. I am trying to go at the speed of a person running. Are you saying that a chair with these casters should be kept to walking speed?

    As far as your troll comments goes, I don't go flaming others on their threads. I don't appreciate them flaming me on mine, regardless of who they are and how helpful they may be otherwise.
    Hi Axle, Just saying that yes, with those casters, it's dangerous to go at faster speeds. Not saying you can't do it but the smaller, skinner, cheap plastic with cheap bearings have a tendency to flutter at a higher rate of speed. They are not designed to go at a faster speed as the average person in a chair doesn't go that fast. That may be why they have different casters available on their order form. I wouldn't order thru them if you are thinking on it. Sportaid or Bike-on.com gives a much better after market price.

    You're one of us type A's that need to push the envelope. To do that safely, a better, larger caster may be needed. It only takes one header from hitting a small rock to send you flying; a different caster at least lessens the chance of that. I'm surprized the others who get pulled haven't said anything about the setups they have.
    Sure sounds fun to be pulled by your dog,especially in warm Orange County. I lived in Huntington Beach off 11th st. back in the day.

    Like the rest of us, you'll end up with a garage full of stuff.

  9. #89
    Senior Member jschism's Avatar
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    maybe you could discuss this matter with member:
    rlmtrhmiles....he knows all
    http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/member.php?u=180055

  10. #90
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axle View Post
    I am not trying to go blazing fast. I am trying to go at the speed of a person running.
    A wheelchair matching pace with a runner is pretty fast. Not in the grand scheme of things, but relatively speaking. Normal, off-the-rack chairs aren't designed to sustain those speeds for very long. Even TiLites. Just because your old chair could doesn't mean the new one will; you can't have the same expectations when you make a major change in equipment.

    FYI: I have these bad boys. They're heavy, but bulletproof.

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