View Poll Results: For yor manual rigid frame chair, does your fork assembly flutter at 15 mph?

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  • yes, but not so bad that it is unsafe

    1 2.70%
  • yes, and it is bad enough to be unsafe

    7 18.92%
  • no

    29 78.38%
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Thread: Danger: TiLite ZR2 front wheel assembly flutters and locks up

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by lacesoutvic View Post
    i guarantee that was not 40mph, looks more like 25. low 30 tops. i was a downhill skateboarder in my AB days and my top speed was 55-60mph. i am a pretty good judge of speed.

    that being said, i really respect totol1 and he has the best collection of chairs that i've ever seen (in pictures lol).
    True, will be around 25mph at the end that is where more speed i get, but that was just a safe speed i could go much faster if you want, but then i will use a halmet and a leather suit for motorbikes .

    BTW i don`t have a collection, i just have two chairs, a xtr1 and a xtr2.
    The chair of the video went to Brasil like a demo.

  2. #42

    Is This Really a TiLite Issue or Is There a Much Bigger Conspiracy?

    I don't feel the title of this thread accurately reflects what is probably the root cause of the issue--using the cheapest caster option available on a high end custom chair.

    In order to keep prices competitive, manufacturers must contain costs. The reality is that most custom ultralights are not paid for by the person who uses the chair, they are provided by third party payers. Many funding sources provide a wheelchair based upon a justification that the chair is medically necessary for mobility inside the home. Sometimes, containing costs means including base options that meet the requirements of the funding source, but not necessarily those of a more-active user.

    I have never spec'd out a TiLite with the 4x.75 plastic caster/poly tire, so I decided to look it up in the online parts manual.

    Turns out, that caster is actually the 4x.75" Pr1mo plastic caster with a 1" hub. What began as an innocent parts inquiry resulted in the realization that there was actually a much bigger, more-sinister conspiracy taking place!

    You see, I came across that same caster on one of our Quickie demos a few years back. At first, I thought it looked pretty cool for a base caster. The "Patent Pending" embossed on the hub led me to believe it must also be an innovative design (I think it's been "pending" for at least 5 years now). Despite my initial impression, I replaced it shortly after we got our demo because it wobbled quite a bit.

    Not only is it made from a soft material, it has hollow spokes!.

    If you want take up the issue with TiLite for offering this caster, then maybe you should take it up with the other manufacturers as well. The other two major US manufacturers, Invacare/Top End and Quickie, offer the exact same caster!



    Could there be a much larger conspiracy between all of the major manufacturers to ensure we receive "dangerous" chairs by offering this caster as a standard option?

    Before you answer that, consider that Ki Mobility is one of the more-recent manufacturers to enter the market. Guess what? Not only do they offer that caster, they "leaked" information on their website that actually supports my speculation about the soft hub!



    Maybe "Pr1mo" is some kind of industry code for the word "dangerous".

    I've embedded a super secret message below for the conspiracy theorists that is typed in invisible ink...

    Don't tell anyone, but there are two wheelchair manufacturers out there who have refused to become part of the "Pr1mo conspiracy". One made 4" rollerblades their standard option while the other offers only FrogLegs casters. They are known to frequent these forums, so in the interest of their personal safety, I'll keep their identities secret. Let's hope that nobody tracks their IP address when they are online so that the black helicopters can't get them!


  3. #43
    Hey Axle, put those Pr1mos on your old chair and see how it wobbles, I mean rolls.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeliecoach View Post
    I have a TiLite ZR and I have never experienced what you have, even with my dog (who is very hyper and loves to run) pulling me. I would like to think SCI OTR is correct about the wheels. I also know first hand that if the foot rest is out of alignment, the frame would be out of alignment as well since that has happened to me. Since there is no support bars on the castor housing, the footplate is designed to support the balance of the chair. With that not being in alignement, the whole chair becomes out of whack. I say try changing up your wheels, make sure your footplate is in alignment and see from there.
    Thanks, I used to live in CT and I know Toby. Is it Toby Moffit? It's been 20 years so I am just guessing at the last name. Maybe we have met.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    Hey Axle, put those Pr1mos on your old chair and see how it wobbles, I mean rolls.
    Good experiment. If this is the case, they have no business putting those wheels on there.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your input. I can see a pattern now. Low quality casters may the cause of the flutter. Design of the chair may be optimal for indoor use only.

  7. #47
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    ugh. wrong thread. this is confusing and stupid.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Axle's Avatar
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    Brian, If a poll serves a purpose to me, why does it bother you?

    I disagree about the car analogy. BMW has liability if they deliver a car that is unsafe. They would never do that. TiLite shouldn't either.

  9. #49
    Senior Member brian's Avatar
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    Yes, BMW has liability if they deliver a car that is unsafe but they're not liable if you try and do something stupid with it. There are performance limits to any mechanical thing.

    Cars are designed around specific performance perameters. If you exceed those you run the risk injury or incident. But that's not BMW's fault. You can't expect a stock 5 Series to turn in sub-9:00 times around the Nurburgring and if you try to push it that hard you'll crash. Your chair is no different.

    But if you spend time and money tightening the suspension, upgrading the wheels, enhancing the engine, etc. you could probably push that same BMW to around 8:20.

    You can get your wheelchair to 30mph without equipment failure, but you'll have to upgrade your equipment.

  10. #50
    Senior Member tooley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian View Post
    .... you could probably push that same BMW to around 8:20.

    You can get your wheelchair to 30mph without equipment failure, but you'll have to upgrade your equipment.
    apples and oranges. He is not tuning a sports car, he's not even asking for 30mph, I believe 15 was more in the vicinity of his expectations.

    Take a look at the photo toto posted of Axle's chair with the mark-ups - see the spacers between the caster bullet and the forks? That is an after thought done by someone. Possibly DME ordered wrong size rear wheels and then tried to correct the situation by using the correct size and then raising the front end?

    Mysterious......

    As I said in the other thread, he should do a serial # look-up on Ti's site to see how it left their hands.

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