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Thread: Jerry Silver and Other Discussion from ChinaSCINet Update

  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    Enough of the semantics!

    The chronic adult spinal cord does not regenerate. The reasons are numerous and still being researched by some very talented scientists. There are factors, some known and some unknown, for inhibiting regeneration and equally there are factors, some known and some unknown, as to why the adult human cord does not have intrinsic regenerative properties.

    Let's not waste time coming up with analogies that just confuse things further. Inhibition or Growth promotion? The candle is burning at both ends.
    Yes, it does. The science is all about dealing with inhibitors so that it can regenerate better.

    Live imaging has revealed that unconditioned axons can show some initial sprouts and grow during the first few days after injury. However, further regeneration of these sprouts could not be assessed by histological approaches. We observed regeneration of a few unconditioned axons in chronically injured spinal cords, albeit less extensively than conditioned axons. Most of these axons protruded the peripheral zone of the lesion showing less than 7% of the axonal volume within the inner 150μm region (Fig. 4d,f). Moreover, along their trajectories they intersected only three times with the cylindrical planes (Fig. 4g). These axons were readily unveiled by 3D imaging because of their abnormal trajectories (Supplementary Fig. 10a) and identifiable tips (Supplementary Fig. 11), the key criteria for unequivocally distinguishing regenerating axons from spared axons, which course on their normal path until the edge of imaged tissue segment and show no identifiable tip (Supplementary Fig. 10a). By contrast, conventional histological sectioning would reveal only axon fragments (Supplementary Fig. 10b–h) omitting key information, including a defined axonal tip and trajectory. Hence, regenerating axons would be indistinguishable from spared axons by conventional sectioning. Thus, our data indicate that unconditioned axons not only show some initial sprouting but regenerate if they can bypass the lesion.
    It is notable that 3D imaging also revealed regrowth of unconditioned axons after chronic injury, highlighting a previously underestimated regenerative potential. Because clearing and subsequent 3D imaging allow the tracing of axons up to their tip, it enables unequivocal identification of regenerative axons versus spared axons.
    Last edited by crabbyshark; 01-23-2013 at 06:27 PM. Reason: changed "removing" to "dealing with"

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by crabbyshark View Post
    Yes, it does. The science is all about removing inhibitors so that it can regenerate better.
    No no no!!! I will not get drawn into this bizarre conversation.

    Regenerative potential of axons is not the same as regeneration of the spinal cord!! The spinal cord is made up of a hell of a lot more than f****** axons!

    I will waste no more time on semantics.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    No no no!!! I will not get drawn into this bizarre conversation.

    Regenerative potential of axons is not the same as regeneration of the spinal cord!! The spinal cord is made up of a hell of a lot more than f****** axons!

    I will waste no more time on semantics.
    Yes yes yes.

    Regeneration of axons is a huge part of regeneration of the spinal cord.

    In some injuries where neurons have been damaged, neurons will have to be regenerated too in order to get functional improvement.

    Yelling the loudest or getting angry doesn't make someone more right.

    It is notable that 3D imaging also revealed regrowth of unconditioned axons after chronic injury, highlighting a previously underestimated regenerative potential. Because clearing and subsequent 3D imaging allow the tracing of axons up to their tip, it enables unequivocal identification of regenerative axons versus spared axons.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by crabbyshark View Post
    Yes yes yes.

    Regeneration of axons is a huge part of regeneration of the spinal cord.

    In some injuries where neurons have been damaged, neurons will have to be regenerated too in order to get functional improvement.

    Yelling the loudest or getting angry doesn't make someone more right.
    You just answered my case in point. Thanks.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    You just answered my case in point. Thanks.
    And what's that?

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    You just answered my case in point. Thanks.
    Axonal regeneration, in the absence of neuron regeneration, has shown to result in significant functional improvement.

    Page 57:
    Apparently, USSC did not differentiate into neurons, astrocytes, oligodendrocytes or Schwann cells after transplantation into the acutely injured spinal cord.
    Page 68:
    These data provide evidence that USSC promote axonal regeneration after transplantation into the injured SC.
    Page 63:
    Taken together, the behavioral data demonstrate that USSC transplantation significantly improved the locomotor performance compared to spinal injured animals lacking the stem cell graft.
    SOURCE

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    Moe, as much as you would like to believe it so, there is no conspiracy theory.
    Good point. No conspiracy, much less a "conspiracy theory", is needed for 3 or 4 people to spend most of their time attacking the beliefs of someone trying to prove something.

    It is puzzling why they don't just wait for the results the trials. It seems like they are afraid he might be right.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Fly_Pelican_Fly View Post
    Therein lies the crux of the debate. The parameters for taking a therapy to trial have now changed dramatically. Chronic animal studies and standards are improving the probability of success at clinical stages. Larger animal models may suddenly become de facto soon. Things are always changing. We, as a population, are no longer looking at cells and enzymes that may provide a short window for sprouting but rather true robust regeneration of the chronic spinal cord. In my short time being injured (3.5 years) I have seen a total shift of expectations from the return of 1 or 2 levels of function to robust regeneration for all levels of spinal cord injury!

    As basic science charges forward at pace the priority is to make sure that the selection, translation and trial of therapies is done based upon the most compelling evidence.
    More my point was that I don't doubt Jerry Silver is good at what he does and Wise is very good at what he does. My point was they do very different things yet people are comparing them apples to apples.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by amole View Post
    Good point. No conspiracy, much less a "conspiracy theory", is needed for 3 or 4 people to spend most of their time attacking the beliefs of someone trying to prove something.

    It is puzzling why they don't just wait for the results the trials. It seems like they are afraid he might be right.
    I don't think it's fear. I agree, we are where we are and we look forward to seeing the results.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by t8burst View Post
    More my point was that I don't doubt Jerry Silver is good at what he does and Wise is very good at what he does. My point was they do very different things yet people are comparing them apples to apples.
    I agree with that point too.

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