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Thread: Specs for a ZRA2 with flip-up footrests (DU 100082)

  1. #1
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Specs for a ZRA2 with flip-up footrests (DU 100082)

    We are finally making some progress and almost ready to order a TiLite ZRA from a local dealer. I want to thank all of your for helping us to get from newbie state to being ready to order a new chair. You all have been great, and have provided invaluable information.

    The plan is to order a basic configuration and then add on options separately in the near future -- the reasons why is a very long story.


    If anyone has the time, can you let me know if these specs look about right, so I can respond quickly when we have the quote?

    I also still have some concerns that I am not 100% sure of, which I have included with the specs. Many of these questions have been asked in individual threads, but maybe it helps to put them all together in one post.

    The chair will be used by my husband who is a full-time user who has hemiparesis (paralysis on one side) and will have DU modification 100082 Custom Rigidizer Bar with individual flip-up footrests so that he can foot propel. Here is the original thread I posted when starting this search with more information Input on a new ultra lightweight wheelchair (hemi).

    We also plan to use the ZRA with the eventually (?) to be available ZX1 Power add-on. If the ZX1 does not become available in time, the plan will be to use a Power Handbike such as the Reha-Technik Speedy Elektra, Stricker Lipo Lomo, or RioMobility Firefly.

    Chair specifications:

    TiLite ZRA Frame Finish: Natural Titanium Satin

    Reinforced Frame: None.
    Concerns: We could not convince the dealer, and hence the government for funding, that a Reinforced Frame was necessary for the TiLite warranty, even though we made it clear that we would be getting a Power add-on. Can anyone give input as to what the safety risks are of not having a Reinforced Frame with a ZX1 power add-on or a Power Handbike?

    Color Anodize Package: Black

    Rear Seat Width: 16”

    Front Seat Width (Seat Taper): No Taper

    Seat Depth: 18". Will be +1" for 19” in total with Frog Legs suspension forks (front edge of seat sling begins approximately 1” behind the bend).
    Concerns: We want +1” longer seat depth for stability during transfers. As we understand the order form, this will be included because we are ordering the Frog Legs suspension forks. Our dealer says that we should add +1” custom frame depth, which they charge for. Can anyone verify that the +1” custom frame depth is not necessary, because they will charge us extra for another CAD if it is not? See thread ZRA Frog Legs Forks: Seat Depth / CBTF.

    Front Seat Height: 19"

    Rear Seat Height: 18"

    Front Frame Angle: 85°

    Front End Type & Footrest: (DU100082) Custom Rigidizer Bar with individual Aluminum depth and angle adjustable flip-up footrests. Height dimension: 5.75" (from the bottom of the front frame), Depth dimension: 1" (behind the edge of the seat upholstery), Angle dimension: 7° (technically it's 173°).
    Concerns: We are hoping the Height dimension will be okay for placing it as high as possible, to fit in the back seat of the auto, but still allow some space for whatever we mount on the seat frame, for example disc brakes. If for any reason we can not get the ZX1 power add, I don’t know if the Height dimension will give enough clearance for the clamps for a Power Handbike – any input? For the Depth dimension we need to make sure it has 6” clearance in front of the camber tube for the ZX1 power add-on, which we think should be okay because it’s a long frame depth. See thread ZRA DU100082 Custom Rigidizer bar with flip-up footrests.

    Seat to Footrest: 17"

    Seat Back Type: Folding Titanium Adjustable Height, Seat Back that Locks when Folded

    Tishaft Back release bar: Aluminum

    Push Handles: Integrated Fold-Down Push Handles (Requires Tension Adjustable by Straps Back Upholstery).
    Concerns: We plan to get an ADI back, but we want the chair usable with the no-charge Velcro Adjustable back until then. Does anyone know if we can get the Push handles not installed, can modify the Velcro Adjustable back, or just not fold the handles down temporarily, because the dealer is saying we will need to get these priced as spares at an extra charge?

    Seat Back Height w/ Integrated Fold-Down: Medium 14.5”- 19” Set at: 17"

    Seat Back Options: 4” Deep Backrest Rigidizer Bar

    Seat Back Angle: 92°

    Center of Gravity: 3”

    Rear Wheel Spacing: 1”

    Camber: 2°

    Camber Tube Type: Titanium (for ZX1 Power add-on)

    Front Casters: 5”x1” Plastic Wheel w/Poly Tire to be replaced with 5" x 1.4" Frog Leg Epic Soft Roll casters

    Front Forks: Frog Legs Suspension Forks, Wide (for 1" and 1.5" wide casters). Black.

    Rear Wheel Type / Size: TiLite SHADOW 24" to be replaced with Spinergy LX 24”(540).

    Axles: Stainless Quick Release Axels.

    Rear Wheel Tires: Primo Treaded to be replaced with 24”(540) Schwalbe Marathon Plus Evolution.

    Handrims / Mount: Aluminum – Silver Anodized / Long Tab to be replaced with Natural Fit The Surge LT Handrims.

    Wheel Locks: Standard Push to lock with D's Wheelchair Locks or ADI Disc Brakes to be added.

    Upholstery: Black

    Back Upholstery: Velcro Adjustable (not available with Fold-Down Push Handles) to be replaced with ADI Carbon Fiber Back, Medium 16" x 13″, Active contour 2.5", Quick Release 1" clamp.
    Concerns: See above about the Fold-Down Push Handles.

    Seat Upholstery: Tension Adjustable by Straps. to be replaed with ADI Carbon Fiber Seatbase, 16" x 18", without mounting hardware because we will mount it with Velcro. See thread Carbon fiber solid seat pan by strips.
    Concerns: ADI is saying that we should get the mounting hardware for the ADI Carbon Fiber Seatbase if we are doing the ADI Folding Sideguards (see below). Can anyone give input as to what the safety risks are of not having the mounting hardware?

    Seat Cushion: None. To be replaced with Varilite Evolution PSV seat cushion, 16x18", 3.8" thick.

    Armrests: Swing Away - Tubular 9” to 12”.

    Side Guards: None. ADI Carbon Fiber Folding Sideguards to be added.

    Anti-Tips: User Friendly Flip-up

    User Measurements:
    Height: 72” (6 ft)
    Weight: 150 lbs.
    Pelvic Width: 15” Width of hips at widest point
    Upper Leg Length: 20” Back of buttocks to back knee
    Lower Leg Length: 19” Under knee to floor with shoes
    Scapula Height: 17” Seat surface to scapula
    Shoulder Height: 25” Seat surface to top of shoulder
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  2. #2
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Exclamation Urgent help needed: Specs for a ZRA2 with flip-up footrests (DU 100082)

    After many delays, we finally have a CAD drawing from TiLite via our local dealer. It is based on the specs I provided in the original posting.

    There are a few things that I am concerned about, and I really need to notify our dealer quickly about clarifications and changes to the CAD drawing (today if possible).

    Any input would be most appreciated, especially about the "Forward Tippy Chair". Here is the CAD drawing, and below is the e-mail I plan to send to the dealer (sorry, no time to retype it for the forum).



    Seat Depth / Frame Depth

    We had specified the Seat Depth to be 18", with a total Frame Depth of 19”. In the CAD drawing it shows a Frame Depth of 19.625”.

    We want a slightly longer frame depth for stability during transfers, but we do not want the chair length overall to be any longer than necessary. I am assuming that the CAD drawing is showing a +1” Custom Frame Depth plus .625 added for the Frog Legs forks? As we had originally discussed, this is not clear, but on the TiLite order form it says “Measure from front of back post to the front edge of seat sling. Front edge of seat sling will be at the beginning of the bend at front of chair frame, unless Frog Legs® or 90° Front Angle is ordered, in which case front edge of seat sling begins approximately 1” behind the bend”.

    Change: Please change the Frame Depth to be 19” in total, including what is added for the Frog Legs forks.

    Custom Rigidizer Bar (DU100082)

    We had specified the following: Custom Rigidizer Bar with individual Aluminum depth and angle adjustable flip-up footrests. Height dimension: 5.75" (from the bottom of the front frame), Depth dimension: 1" (behind the edge of the seat upholstery), Angle dimension: 7°. These measurements are difficult, because it is impossible to know the exact dimensions without having the chair to measure.


    We were hoping the Height dimension would be good for placing it as high as possible, to fit in the back seat of the auto, but still allow some space for whatever we mount on the seat frame, for example disc brakes. We also need to make sure that it will work with either the ZX1 Power add-on or the the Reha-Technik Speedy Elektra power handbike. As we have talked about, a decision has not yet been made on which model, but it needs to work for both, because we will definitely be getting a power add-on.

    Change: Please change the Angle dimension to 0° as stated would be enough for the Reha-Technik Speedy Elektra coupling bar/bracket, unless this will result in an instable frame. The other option is to make sure there is 8” clearance for the center mounted coupling bar/bracket under the seat frame. Please also make sure there is 6”of clearance in front of the camber tube for the ZX1 Power add.

    Forward Tippy Chair

    We do not want a forward tippy chair. I would like to understand more about why TiLite says the “chair does not meet TiLite’s minimum stability requirements” as stated on the CAD Drawing.

    Possible changes: If the changes above do not result in a less tippy chair, please consider the following:1) Consider changing the Rear Seat Height (RSH) to 17.5”. 2) Consider changing the Center of Gravity (COG) to 2.75”. 3) Consider changing the Front Angle to 80°, but this is the least preferred so that the frame is not in the way for foot propulsion.
    Last edited by elarson; 12-19-2012 at 03:26 PM.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  3. #3
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    pretty sure it is a combination of multiple of those numbers and where your weight is on the chair. Is your husband's weight primarily in a "static" location while using chair or is it continually moving? If moving does your husband have good control or able to correct that. The new chair I just got, I flipped out forward 2X in 3 days until I learned what was going on. Is your husband able to correct something like that? If not, I definately suggest making sure you have that correct.

  4. #4
    If you reduce the COG (which isn't really COG, but is a measurement of how far forward of the backrest the wheel axle is), you also reduce backward tippyness, which presumably results in more forward tippyness.

    When I read your initial spec sheet, my only concern was that the axle is too far forward, especially for someone who is foot propelling - I was afraid that the chair would tip back too easily. Apparently I am wrong, if Ti is saying that the chair as specified will be forward tippy.

  5. #5
    I like longer wheelchairs for transfers as you mentioned, but you may be overly concerned on this point.
    The stabilizer bar is what did catch my attention as I self propel a little too. I would not want that thing set at that angle as I'm sure it would get in the way at times. I'd want it set so the cross member is as high and out of the way as possible.
    And the other point is the difference between fsh and rsh is only and inch. Is that what he is used to using? I have a chair like that and cannot use or change it. Be sure you are right the go ahead.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

  6. #6
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    He has some control, but because of hemiparesis (one sided paralysis) he only adjust/control on one side. He often slides down into the front with a chair of similar specs with 1" dump. I was wanting to change the dump to 2", but the dealer did not recommend it for foot propulsion. On another chair, it is a 2" dump, and he does quite well with it. Especially if it changes the forward tippy'ness, I think this could be a good solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmtrhmiles View Post
    pretty sure it is a combination of multiple of those numbers and where your weight is on the chair. Is your husband's weight primarily in a "static" location while using chair or is it continually moving? If moving does your husband have good control or able to correct that. The new chair I just got, I flipped out forward 2X in 3 days until I learned what was going on. Is your husband able to correct something like that? If not, I definately suggest making sure you have that correct.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  7. #7
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Yes, I am confused by this too. It's not an issue to take it back a little, but it does not quite make sense to me, especially with the long frame length, that puts the casters out pretty far forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katja View Post
    If you reduce the COG (which isn't really COG, but is a measurement of how far forward of the backrest the wheel axle is), you also reduce backward tippyness, which presumably results in more forward tippyness.

    When I read your initial spec sheet, my only concern was that the axle is too far forward, especially for someone who is foot propelling - I was afraid that the chair would tip back too easily. Apparently I am wrong, if Ti is saying that the chair as specified will be forward tippy.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  8. #8
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I had wanted the ridgidizer bar as high as possible. Unfortunately, I am hearing that we will have problems with a power handbike if we do that. We are really hoping for a ZX1 power add-on, in which case a lower ridgidizer bar would not be necessary. Unfortunately, it is not available yet, and no word on when/if it will be, so I feel we need to plan for alternatives. About the dump, that is my feeling also. I think I'll pursue that with TiLite.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonoise View Post
    I like longer wheelchairs for transfers as you mentioned, but you may be overly concerned on this point.
    The stabilizer bar is what did catch my attention as I self propel a little too. I would not want that thing set at that angle as I'm sure it would get in the way at times. I'd want it set so the cross member is as high and out of the way as possible.
    And the other point is the difference between fsh and rsh is only and inch. Is that what he is used to using? I have a chair like that and cannot use or change it. Be sure you are right the go ahead.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  9. #9
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    All of your replies are very helpful. You are saying things that I have thought about, but it really helps to have someone else say it. The local dealer did not seem to really want to brainstorm about it, but I suspect he is rather tired of me .
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    ... About the dump, that is my feeling also. I think I'll pursue that with TiLite.
    I think the DME was thinking *only* in terms of raising the fsh which in turn would lift his feet a little higher off the floor making self propel more difficult.
    I'd seriously consider using the same fsh and rsh as the chair that works best now. Loosing any of that mobility would be a shame. Incidently I don't know how much function his leg has, but it could be better than both mine put together. I need both of what's left of my legs to move around on flat smooth surfaces. It's just a little push, but I am thankful for it.
    I have had periodic paralysis all my life. I lost my ability to walk in 2011 beginning with a spinal block, which was used for a hip fracture caused by periodic paralysis.

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