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Thread: ZRA Frog Legs Forks: Seat Depth / CBTF

  1. #1
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    ZRA Frog Legs Forks: Seat Depth / CBTF

    Both of the questions I have are about ordering a new ZRA, and are intertwined. I hope they make sense and someone can help. In summary, we are trying to order as standard of a chair as possible from a local supplier with all possible no charge options included (for spares), and then order other options online.

    1) Seat Depth: We are interested in an 18" seat depth with a custom frame depth +1" longer than the seat (upholstery) depth. Unfortunately, our supplier charges $192 for a custom frame depth (like the old ZRA order form). In the ZRA order form it says:
    SEAT DEPTH B Measure from front of back post to the front edge of seat sling. Front edge of seat sling will be at the beginning of the bend at front of chair frame, unless Frog Legs® or 90° Front Angle is ordered, in which case front edge of seat sling begins approximately 1” behind the bend.
    Question: Do I understand the order form correctly that if we order Frog Leg forks we will have a frame depth of +1"? I am trying to figure out if we should go ahead and order the Frog Leg forks from our supplier with an increased cost of $244, if it includes the +1" custom frame depth.

    CBTF: If we decide to order the Frog Legs forks online, I need to know the Caster Barrel to Floor height (CBTF). Unfortunately, all that I have read is assuming that this is done after-market, when you already have the old forks to measure. We may want to order the free of charge TiLite Standard Forks with 5”x1” Plastic Wheel w/Poly Tire casters from our supplier, and then swap them for Frog Legs forks (wide for 1"and 1.5" wide casters) and 5" x 1.4" Frog Leg Epic Soft Roll Aluminium casters bought online.

    Questions:
    - Can anyone tell me if you think it is a bad idea to order Frog Leg forks separate from the chair (an online supplier advised against it)?

    - If we were to order the Frog Leg Forks separate from the chair, can anyone tell me what the CBTF should be for the above specs?
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  2. #2
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    elerson, I am not 100% positive, but I think if you order the chair and spec it out, the frame is then constructed exactly to that spec and all of those measurements. I tried to order 26" wheels on this old chair and change front forks to account for new length, I was recommended not to do it. I di not ask why, but I think they were concerned about doing the type of changes you are describing here.

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    Is your supplier trying to charge you MSRP? The chair I am buying, the spec is quoted directly from Tilite. The names are the vendor, not me. That has the MSRP price for entire thing on it. At the bottom, there is a hand-written flat 25% discount on entire chair. That cost comes practically the Spotaid cost a few dollars higher. This lets them do all the measurements, phone work, delivery and all other things to get the chair to me. I thought that was a good deal. He did try bill me MSRP and that when I said I buy at Internet.

  4. #4
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    Internationally they often charge higher than the MSRP, even with taking currency, different taxes and shipping into account. In our case, the local supplier is about 21% higher than MSRP for straight TiLite products. What I am trying to do now is give our local supplier the option to discount to reasonable levels for straight TiLite products, which I think they will, but be ready for the fact that they will probably not discount lower than MSRP.

    If we could get equipment about equal to US MSRP (not including currency conversion, taxes and shipping), I would not hesitate to order locally. I think you were wise to do it with a local supplier, but on principal, I need options for doing it half way outside the box for third-party options, which often run about 50+% higher here (i.e., Frog Legs, ADI seat back/base/sideguards, Natural Fit handrims, Varalite cushions, etc.). It's the puzzle of trying to put it all together. I think my spreadsheet of prices in different currencies, taxes, etc. would make your head spin -- it does mine. Not such a straight forward situation for us foreigners.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlmtrhmiles View Post
    Is your supplier trying to charge you MSRP? The chair I am buying, the spec is quoted directly from Tilite. The names are the vendor, not me. That has the MSRP price for entire thing on it. At the bottom, there is a hand-written flat 25% discount on entire chair. That cost comes practically the Spotaid cost a few dollars higher. This lets them do all the measurements, phone work, delivery and all other things to get the chair to me. I thought that was a good deal. He did try bill me MSRP and that when I said I buy at Internet.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  5. #5
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    About the topic of international suppliers and ordering online, here is a link I posted about gouging international users: (action needed) TiLite trying to stop online suppliers shipping internationally .This post was made on 09-29-2012.

    I tried to keep my head low on this, hoping that maybe sanity would prevail, but I don't think it has, based on no response from any of the powers that be. In fact, all I have heard is that this is the status quo.

    Why should we pay for uncompetitive pricing and service internationally, by not allowing international competition, it is the users who will pay the price!

    I am still waiting for a reasonable answer.... and quite frankly, I am looking for ways to circumvent the "system" the longer that TiLite ignores this issue. It is becoming a matter of principle, that someone needs to answer...
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

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    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    About my question about the custom frame depth, I talked to our supplier and they said we would need to order a +1" custom frame depth, even though we are getting Frog Legs suspension forks. I am a little concerned that we will end up with a chair that in reality will be +2" longer frame depth, and I think that would be a little excessive and make the chair too long.
    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    Question: Do I understand the order form correctly that if we order Frog Leg forks we will have a frame depth of +1"? I am trying to figure out if we should go ahead and order the Frog Leg forks from our supplier with an increased cost of $244, if it includes the +1" custom frame depth.
    I just noticed in this thread by SCI_OTR 1 8x18 85 Degree TiLite ZRc (The Z9.5) that it will include a +1" frame depth if we order Frog Legs suspension forks, so I think this answers this question.

    As a note: the reason we would like the longer frame length is for stability during transfers. My husband tends to slide forward quite a bit because he has long legs and the chair will have an 85° front angle, similar to the one pictured below.
    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    While an 18" seat depth and no custom frame length were spec'd, this chair has Frog Legs suspension forks. As a result the bend starts an inch in front of the upholstery...
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  7. #7
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    About the other questions, we decided to order the Frog Leg Forks with the chair to be installed by TiLite, so I don't need to know the CBTF.
    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    Questions:
    - Can anyone tell me if you think it is a bad idea to order Frog Leg forks separate from the chair (an online supplier advised against it)?

    - If we were to order the Frog Leg Forks separate from the chair, can anyone tell me what the CBTF should be for the above specs?
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  8. #8
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I am trying to determine what the Caster Barrel to Floor height (CBTF) will be on a not yet received ZRA (so I don't have the chair yet to measure it).

    Can someone tell me if you think this is correct based on the CAD drawing and Frog Legs example overlayed?

    Front Caster Diameter: 5.0
    Caster Barrel to Floor height (CBTF): 6.0
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  9. #9
    I think you're taking big risk for little benefit.
    It could be safer to wait for the chair, use it as-is for some time and then decide what to do.
    From what I have seen of the ZX1, it seems that you can easily do wheelies so in case of rough ground, so you won't need froglegs forks.

  10. #10
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I agree it is a risk, but we will probably need to order them before we have the chair or we will have to pay out-of-pocket later (we already have them approved by the government).

    I think you are right about the ZX1 and wheelies, based on this post by Pattherat #182.
    Quote Originally Posted by pattherat View Post
    If your small front casters get stuck you can just lean back to get the weight off them or even pop a wheelie, there is an anti-tip feature built in, to get drive through the obstacle.
    Unfortunately, I don't think we will get the chance to demo the ZX1 power add-on before purchasing. I have to believe Frog Legs would soften the ride, as many use Frog Legs with e-Motions, e-Fix, Yamaha JW's, etc. My husbands old Permobil C350 power chair, and many others, have 4-wheel suspension. We noticed a pretty big difference on bumpy cobblestone roads with it.

    I'm going to see if I can get any input through the ZX1 thread too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    I think you're taking big risk for little benefit.
    It could be safer to wait for the chair, use it as-is for some time and then decide what to do.
    From what I have seen of the ZX1, it seems that you can easily do wheelies so in case of rough ground, so you won't need froglegs forks.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

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