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Thread: (action needed) TiLite trying to stop online suppliers shipping internationally

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    The last update to the TiLIte Warranty was 16 January 2012, so that has been there at least since then.
    Yep, we would have been covered by the warranty prior to that date.

    How exactly does TiLite prove where you reside.
    Presumably they just use the shipping address. But I agree that you can foresee some problems!

    Can someone verify that Icon definitely does not have any international policies like TiLite?
    From my experience, yes, there are currently no international policies in place. But you can ask Jeff Adams directly (if he doesn't respond on this thread).

    There is very little said in the Icon warranty
    I guess you don't need to say very much if all you are saying is that you will replace anything that goes wrong! Wish more suppliers would say less, and act more!
    Gordon, father of son who became t6 paraplegic at the age of 4 in 2007 as a result of surgery to remove a spinal tumour.

  2. #52
    Senior Member TiLite's Avatar
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    Care Cure Forum:

    As the Director of International Sales for TiLite, the thread regarding internet sales to international locations was brought to my attention. While I am sure that some users may find it frustrating that US Based Internet Providers are not allowed (and have not been allowed for some years) to ship product to specific countries, I think it is important that you fully understand the reasoning behind this long-standing policy.

    While on face value, the policy seems to protect our international distributors, the ultimate goal is to provide protections to the consumer and ensure that they receive a product that is correctly ordered and fitted to them. In countries where we have exclusive distribution agreements, our distributors and their suppliers are trained directly by TiLite and we work closely with them to keep them updated and informed on product changes and updates. In addition, we feel that a direct supplier in country is vital to ensure proper prescription and positive outcomes.

    The Distributor or dealer provides a variety of services that the Internet provider can not:

    1. Provision of demo chairs to view or trial
    2. Professional assessment or referral to professional OT/PT’s if a customer
    is not sure of his/her specific needs
    3. Warranty support and repairs after the sale is complete
    4. Assist with billing for insurance or government funding bodies for
    reimbursement
    5. Education for consumers and rehabilitation professionals
    6. Marketing and demo support to clinicians
    7. Regulatory approvals in their country of origin
    8. Shipping and custom’s clearance

    If you look only at the base price, you are not getting a complete story. There are numerous costs that the distributor covers that are not passed on. However, the pricing will vary from country to country based on current market conditions, insurance and reimbursement policies, duties and taxes incurred on importation.

    We are continually working to improve our distribution network and have had great success with our current model; we monitor our distributors closely and are always looking for feedback from customers to improve our international business. It is also important to point out that shipping is restricted to specific countries where we have exclusive agreements. We do want to be sure that individuals in other countries have access.
    As for your specific situations, I am happy to speak with you individually if you have any further questions or concerns. Please feel free to contact me via email at troesler@tilite.com.
    TiLite. The Ultimate Ride.

  3. #53

  4. #54
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I would like to thank TiLite for responding to this thread. I will follow-up further, if necessary directly, to the e-mail provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiLite View Post
    As the Director of International Sales for TiLite, the thread regarding internet sales to international locations was brought to my attention....
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by TiLite View Post
    As the Director of International Sales for TiLite, the thread regarding internet sales to international locations was brought to my attention. While I am sure that some users may find it frustrating that US Based Internet Providers are not allowed (and have not been allowed for some years) to ship product to specific countries, I think it is important that you fully understand the reasoning behind this long-standing policy.

    While on face value, the policy seems to protect our international distributors, the ultimate goal is to provide protections to the consumer and ensure that they receive a product that is correctly ordered and fitted to them. In countries where we have exclusive distribution agreements, our distributors and their suppliers are trained directly by TiLite and we work closely with them to keep them updated and informed on product changes and updates. In addition, we feel that a direct supplier in country is vital to ensure proper prescription and positive outcomes.

    The Distributor or dealer provides a variety of services that the Internet provider can not:

    1. Provision of demo chairs to view or trial
    2. Professional assessment or referral to professional OT/PT’s if a customer
    is not sure of his/her specific needs
    3. Warranty support and repairs after the sale is complete
    4. Assist with billing for insurance or government funding bodies for
    reimbursement
    5. Education for consumers and rehabilitation professionals
    6. Marketing and demo support to clinicians
    7. Regulatory approvals in their country of origin
    8. Shipping and custom’s clearance

    If you look only at the base price, you are not getting a complete story. There are numerous costs that the distributor covers that are not passed on. However, the pricing will vary from country to country based on current market conditions, insurance and reimbursement policies, duties and taxes incurred on importation.

    We are continually working to improve our distribution network and have had great success with our current model; we monitor our distributors closely and are always looking for feedback from customers to improve our international business. It is also important to point out that shipping is restricted to specific countries where we have exclusive agreements. We do want to be sure that individuals in other countries have access.
    As for your specific situations, I am happy to speak with you individually if you have any further questions or concerns. Please feel free to contact me via email at troesler@tilite.com.

    That is about the most BS I have heard since tilite came about.

    Most of us have been fitted by your so called DME Tilite reps. who have gone thru your course on fitting out a wheelchair. Follow up on a few threads here on how ill fitted the chairs end up being and how Tilite or the DME's take little or no responsibility after they have been paid.

    I have owned three Tilites and am looking at a new chair right now. As much as I like my Tr there is no way I am going to deal with Tilite again because of the practises you have incorporated; much like Quickie and Top End have gone.

    I bought one of the first Tilites built from Marty Ball when they were still just a small company. Until recently, we could call Tilite and get a part replaced or even buy a part. Now we have to go thru a dme who, in most cases, has no care or knowledge of what we need.

    There are many smaller, newer designed wheelchair companies who provide the services you used to provide.

    Tilite has become one of the largest companies for wheelchairs mainly because of their service to the consumer. You have lost that service first mentality and it will cost you by losing continued customers such as myself and people like the original poster of this thread who spent countless hours checking out your products and comparing them with others. Because of your so called "need to provide qualified dme's; a joke I'm sure" she has to start all over again looking for another product.

    IMO, she will be much better off in that she will end up with a manufactuer who actually cares for the customer; much like Tilite used to.

  6. #56
    Senior Member DaleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elarson View Post
    I would like to thank TiLite for responding to this thread. I will follow-up further, if necessary directly, to the e-mail provided.
    Would have been better if it would have been more than "party line" marketing hype.

    Regardless, I do hope your wheel gets some grease.

    Your husband's needs far outstrip TiLite's fantasy that DME retailers have our best interests in mind. What a joke, that is, IMHO.

    Good luck.
    __________________

    He who hears not me but the Logos will say: All is one.

  7. #57
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    I'm very depressed. I can not even give a reply. Thanks for everyones support.
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

  8. #58
    Stay strong E., if anything, you may have saved yourself from a lot of headaches if anything went wrong with the Tilite. If they won't even respond before you buy, just think of the hastle of getting a response once you paid for the chair and it wasn't right.

    This shows what Tilite has become and I'm really disappointed that they have gone downhill like this.I remember when they first started and we told Marty Ball that we hoped they didn't turn into another Quickie type company. He laughed and said they never would. Ha! seems they have.

    I've been looking at the Otto Bock chairs. Not too bad. Like Toto's Oracing also.

    Man, I hate the thought of you having to go thru this again E. Can you contact your provider and explain what's going on. I'm sure they would want to be aware of Tilites ummm responses.

  9. #59
    Senior Member elarson's Avatar
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    TiLite warranty

    I am trying to decide how much we should be concerned about the TiLite warranty. As I read the warranty, TiLite’s only obligation is to repair or replace, at their sole discretion, the covered components of the wheelchair, which except for the frame is quite limited. If you add other factors in, it becomes even more limited.

    In short, I don’t think we would have a leg to stand on even if we did everything as they would like. I would like to hear what all of you think, relative to what is “industry standard”. In reality, we would have very few remedies for anything anyway…

    I think it is good to discuss this, especially based on the topic of this thread, so that we all know what we are getting into in advance of purchasing a chair. It is meant as “food for thought” for everyone who intends to modify components of their chair, or considers buying a chair through a a non-TiLite International Distributor in their local country.

    The only way I can think to do this is to give some hypothetical scenarios that are based on our concerns:

    Scenario 1: You have bought a chair that does not have a reinforced frame because you do not yet have a power add-on that requires a reinforced frame (as in a http://beachmobility.com/ZX1). The type of power add-on you plan to use will be mounted to the camber tube, so you purchase a titanium camber tube.
    Use case scenario: The frame breaks at a point that is not the camber tube. Who is responsible for replacing the frame?

    Scenario 2: You have bought a chair, that does not have a reinforced frame because you do not yet have a power add-on that requires a reinforced frame. The type of power add-on you plan to use will be mounted on the front frame, and the dealer says they will be responsible if there is a defect (as in a www.speedy.de/de/handbikes/handbikes/speedy-elektra-2).
    Use case scenario: The frame breaks at a point that is not the front frame. Who is responsible for replacing frame if this is not explicitly defined by the dealer?

    Scenario 3: You have bought a chair with a TiLite Designs Unlimited frame component, for example, (DU100082) Custom Rigidizer Bar.
    Use case scenario: The frame breaks at a point that is not the Custom Rigidizer Bar. Who is responsible for the frame?

    Scenario 4: You have bought a chair through a TiLite Dealer in the USA or TiLite International Distributor. You are on vacation, working abroad, or have emigrated to another country and order replacement parts locally.
    Use case scenario: The frame breaks. Who is responsible for replacing the frame?

    Scenario 5: You have bought a chair with Frog Legs forks through TiLite, and standard 5”x1” Plastic Wheel w/Poly Tire and later replace the front casters with: 5" x 1.4" Frog Leg Epic Soft Roll Wheelchair Casters, Aluminum.
    Use case scenario: The Frog Legs forks breaks. Who is responsible for the forks?

    Scenario 6: You have bought a chair with standard Velcro Adjustable Back Upholstery and later replace the back with an ADI Carbon Fiber Back.
    Use case scenario: A back post breaks. Who is responsible for replacing the back post?

    For reference, below is the TiLite Limited Warranty (copied from their website). Please do not hold me to any obligations or responsibility over this;-).

    LIMITED WARRANTY

    A. LIFETIME
    TiLite warrants the wheelchair frame (including the cross-braces, if any) against defects in materials and workmanship for life, so long as the original purchaser uses the wheelchair. The expected life of the frame is five years.

    B. ONE YEAR

    Subject to the Limitations and Exclusions below, TiLite warrants all TiLite–made wheelchair components, including the Tension Adjustable by Straps Backrest Upholstery, against defects in materials and workmanship for one year from the date of purchase, provided normal use. A replacement product or part that has been installed in accordance with TiLite’s instructions assumes the remaining warranty of the original product or 90 days from the date of repair or replacement, whichever is longer.

    C. LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS


    1. This warranty excludes tires and tubes, upholstery (other than Tension Adjustable by Straps Backrest Upholstery), pads, push handle grips, stroller handle grips and any labor or shipping charges incurred in replacement part installation or repair of the product.

    2. This warranty does not cover the following, as determined by TiLite in its sole discretion:
    a. damage arising from normal wear and tear or from other circumstances beyond TiLite’s control; or
    b. damage to Tension Adjustable by Straps Back Upholstery due to punctures, tears or burns; or
    c. TiLite Designs Unlimited frames and frame components, unless TiLite determines that the frame or frame component was defectively manufactured.

    3. This warranty is VOID if TiLite, in its sole discretion, determines that:
    a. the original TiLite serial number tag has been removed, altered or defaced; or
    b. the product has been subjected to negligence, accident, improper maintenance, storage or operation as required by the TiLite Owners Manual, commercial or institutional use, misuse or abuse, including, but not limited to, exceeding the maximum weight limit of the product or using the product with tie downs or locking, clamping or other restraint systems related to the use of a wheelchair in a motor vehicle; or
    c. the wheelchair has been damaged by improper repairs or repairs made without the express written consent of TiLite; or
    d. the wheelchair has been modified without TiLite’s express written consent, including, but not limited to, modification through the use of unauthorized parts or attachments.

    4. This warranty applies only to the original purchaser/user of the chair and is non-transferable.

    5. TiLite’s policy is to honor warranties and to perform services only on products purchased from authorized TiLite Dealers in the USA or TiLite International Distributors. If you purchase a TiLite product from an unauthorized TiLite Dealer or International Distributor, or if you reside outside the USA and you purchase a TiLite product from anyone other than the authorized TiLite International Distributor for your country of residence, your warranty will not be valid.

    D. OUR RESPONSIBILITY


    TiLite’s sole obligation, and your exclusive remedy, under any warranty is to repair or replace, in our sole discretion, the covered components of the wheelchair.

    E. FOR WARRANTY SERVICE


    If your product requires warranty service, please contact an authorized TiLite Dealer in the USA or an authorized TiLite International Distributor. In the event of a defect in material or workmanship, the Dealer or Distributor must obtain a return authorization (RA) number from TiLite, and TiLite issues RA numbers only to authorized TiLite Dealers and Distributors. If you do not receive satisfactory service, please write to TiLite Customer Service at 2701 West Court Street, Pasco, WA 99301 or email customerservice@tilite.com. Do not return products to our factory without our prior consent. Returns must be shipped with freight pre-paid. TiLite recommends that you insure the product for its full replacement cost.

    F. CONSUMER NOTICE

    This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other legal rights that vary from state to state. The foregoing express warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, whether written or oral, express or implied, including the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. The sole remedy for violations of any warranty whatsoever shall be limited to repair or replacement of the defective product pursuant to the terms contained herein. No warranty, express or implied, shall extend beyond the terms of the warranties provided above. TiLite shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential or incidental damages whatsoever, and in no event shall damages for breach of any warranty exceed the original cost of the product. By registering your TiLite wheelchair, you will be deemed to agree with all provisions of this warranty. No person is authorized to alter or extend the foregoing express warranty or to waive any of the limitations or exclusions.

    DC100015 Rev D 01/16/12
    Last edited by elarson; 12-03-2012 at 10:53 PM. Reason: formatting fixes
    Partner of an incredible stroke survivor. Limitations: hemiparesis and neglect (functional paralysis and complete lack of awareness on one side). Equipment: TiLite ZRA 2 and 2GX, Spinergy ZX-1, RioMobility Firefly. Knowledge: relative newbie for high-level equipment (2012), but willing to try to help others who are new with similar limitations (definitely not a guru, but inquisitive).

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