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Thread: wheelchair measurements..round 2

  1. #1

    wheelchair measurements..round 2

    Sorry about this being the second time asking for feedback on wheelchair measurements. I've really been putting off ordering a chair out of fear of getting something wrong. I've decided on a Ti Lite TR3 (I didn't make it in time for the TR). I know it's risky getting a highly custom fitted chair but I need a super durable chair that's all welded together with less chances of falling parts.

    So, after careful consideration, I've decided on the following:


    Frame Type:
    [TiLite TR Series 3 - 265 lb weight limit]
    Front Seat Height:
    [19"]
    Rear Seat Height:
    [15.5"]
    Seat Depth:
    [15"] 1+extra

    Center of Gravity:
    [1"]
    Front Angle:
    [85° (n/a w/6" Front Wheels)]
    Seat Width:
    [15"]
    Front Seat Width:
    [No Taper (2" Narrower than Rear Seat Width) - STD]
    Ergonomic Seat:
    None selected
    Seat to Footrest:
    [14"]
    Footrests:
    [Angle Adjustable Footrest - STD]
    Front End Type & Footrest Width:
    [V Front End - 10" Footrest Width]
    Seat Back Type:
    [TRSB1 Folding Aluminum Adjustable Height]
    TISHAFT Back Release Bars:
    [TRSB4 Titanium (n/a w/Non-Folding, Fixed Height Titanium Back)] [+$28.00]
    Push Handles:
    [TRSB8 Bolt-On Push Handles (Includes 4" Deep Backrest Rigidizer Bar. N/A w/Ti Back)] [+$140.00]
    Seat Back Height - Adjustable:
    [12" - 16.5"]
    Seat Back Height - Fixed:
    [16"]
    Backrest Options:
    [TRSB12 4" Deep Backrest Rigidizer Bar (n/a w/new Titanium Rounded Rigidizer Bar)]
    Seat Back Angle:
    [*** Folding Back ***]
    Rear Wheel Spacing:
    [1”]
    Camber:
    [2°]
    Camber Tube Type:
    [Titanium Camber Tube (n/a w/Power Adapatable Frame)] [+$40.00]
    Additional Camber Tube:
    None selected
    Frog Legs Rear Suspension:
    None selected
    Frame Finishes:
    [Satin - STD]
    Color Anodized Package:
    [Black - STD]
    Front Wheels:
    [5” x 1” Performance 5 Spoke Billet Aluminum Wheel w/Poly Tire - Silver Hub (n/a w/90º Front Angle L)] [+$116.00]
    Front Forks:
    [TRFK1 - TiLite Standard Fork - STD]
    Front Fork Options:
    None selected (WHY IS IT ASKING FOR FRONT FORK OPTIONS AFTER I SELECTED THE STANDARD FORK?)
    Rear Wheel Size:
    [24” (540)]
    Rear Wheel Type:
    [TRRW8 - Spinergy LX - Choose spoke color below (n/a w/20")] [+$716.00]
    Axles:
    [TRAXL1 - Stainless Quick Release - STD]
    Rear Wheel Tires:
    [TRRTR15 - 24” (540) & 25” (559) Treaded] [+$76.00]
    Handrims:
    [Plastic Coated – Black] [+$76.00]
    Handrim Mount:
    [Long Tab]
    Wheel Locks:
    [TRWLK10 - Compact Composite Push to Lock w/Extension Handles] [+$60.00]
    Upholstery Colors:
    [Black - STD]
    Back Upholstery:
    [TRBUP3 - Tension Adjustable by Straps (Required w/Fold-Down Push Handles)] [+$240.00]
    Seat Upholstery:
    [TRSUP2 - Tension Adjustable by Straps (Standard w/Ergonomic Seat & Front Seat Width (Seat Taper) of 1”, 2” or 3”. Black upholstery only)] [+$120.00]
    Seat Cushion:
    [3" Foam] [+$76.00]
    Side Guards:
    None selected
    Armrests:
    None selected
    Seat Belts:
    [TRBLT2 - Bodypoint 2” Push-Button Buckle (Auto-Style)] [+$68.00]
    Calf Strap:
    [TRCLF2 - Velcro Adjustable] [+$28.00]
    Anti-Tips:
    [TRTIP2 - User Friendly Rear Flip-up (n/a w/Frog Legs Rear Suspension)] [+$196.00]
    Neoprene Impact Guards w/Ultrasuede Stripe:
    None selected
    Shipping:
    [FREE Standard Ground Shipping within Continental US]
    Comments:


    The difference between the new measurements and those of my older Ti Lite TR are:
    90 degree front angle ----->85 degree with 1 inch extra
    Back angle 98 degrees----->95 degrees
    4 inch casters------->5 by 1 inch (no 5 by 1.5 inch aluminum wheels with poly available)
    rear seat height 16"------->rear seat height 15.5"

    I don't know if I have the dump right. When I tried out several seat cushions (that ranged from .5 to a full 1 inch thicker than my current cushion), I was extra wobbly and sitting too high up. Is increasing my dump by half an inch going to give me the stability I need?

    To stabilize my trunk to accomodate the thicker cushion, a therapist lowered my back by 2 inches but while I had better posture, my back kept wobbling backwards and I had a difficult time holding myself up when catheterizing. I have to convince my therapist that I'm better off with a higher back and reclined angle.

    But, I still haven't found the answer to matching my chair with my cushion. Is an increase in dump sufficient...If I increase the dump, I'll have to adjust the back angle too, right?

    Attached is my old Ti Lite TR and a few additional questions:
    -is the backrest at 98 degrees?
    -the front frame angle is at 90 degrees...if I go with a 85 degree with an extra 1 inch of frame, do I need to adjust my seat to footrest?
    -I wanted to play with adjustments on my newer Quickie GT to see what works best. I requested my rear seat height to be increased by 1 inch but was told that that would also require a change in caster size (from 4 inch to 3 inch). Does this sound right?

    Whew...I have so many questions..If any can be answered, I would appreciate it. Thanks!!

  2. #2
    forgot photo attachment..

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    707
    I'd say if you have the dump set close to what you already have, and leave the back as folding, you should be okay. This way if you feel like you're being pushed forward you can adjust it to compensate.
    Just my opinion.
    Rollin' since '89. Complete C8

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    coastal NC
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by underthesun View Post
    Front Wheels:
    [5” x 1” Performance 5 Spoke Billet Aluminum Wheel w/Poly Tire - Silver Hub (n/a w/90º Front Angle L)] [+$116.00]
    Front Forks:
    [TRFK1 - TiLite Standard Fork - STD]
    Front Fork Options:
    None selected (WHY IS IT ASKING FOR FRONT FORK OPTIONS AFTER I SELECTED THE STANDARD FORK?)
    Sportaid, right?

    Front fork option asks do you want titanium fork STEMS – a wise option for bulletproof peace of mind.

    You stated you prefer 5x1.5 Billets. Don't settle for 5x1 Billets, order TiLite standard forks and 5x1.5 plastic whl/poly tire wheels @$64, have Sportaid special order FrogLeg 5x1.4" R6 aluminum soft rolls @ approx $83. They'll switch right out. Your other option would be aftermarket FL forks and wheels.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Crappler View Post
    I'd say if you have the dump set close to what you already have, and leave the back as folding, you should be okay. This way if you feel like you're being pushed forward you can adjust it to compensate.
    Just my opinion.
    Thanks Crappler! Yeah, the dump will only be increased by 1/2 an inch. The thing about dump on a TR is that it's fixed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nofuss View Post
    Sportaid, right?

    Front fork option asks do you want titanium fork STEMS – a wise option for bulletproof peace of mind.

    You stated you prefer 5x1.5 Billets. Don't settle for 5x1 Billets, order TiLite standard forks and 5x1.5 plastic whl/poly tire wheels @$64, have Sportaid special order FrogLeg 5x1.4" R6 aluminum soft rolls @ approx $83. They'll switch right out. Your other option would be aftermarket FL forks and wheels.
    Thanks nofuss! I'm ordering through Sportaid. I'll definitely follow your advice and go with titanium fork stems and the 5x1.5 wheels. I had no idea Froglegs can fit on a standard fork.

  7. #7
    I'm actually having this very discussion with my colleagues at work and have some thoughts to share. Of course, in order to continue my discussion with them, that means I actually need to be at work. I will post some of my thoughts tonight.


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SCI_OTR View Post
    I'm actually having this very discussion with my colleagues at work and have some thoughts to share. Of course, in order to continue my discussion with them, that means I actually need to be at work. I will post some of my thoughts tonight.
    Thanks SCI_OTR! Any feedback will be appreciated!

  9. #9
    I'm not positive of your injury level, but this ZRA2 represents one configuration which seems to work for some C5-6 users. It has ~4" of dump with a rear STF height of ~14.5", a seat angle 13-15 degrees, and a back angle of about 102-105 degrees. The back height is relatively tall (that is a 16" ADI back), and a COG spec that is fairly conservative. For sake of comparison, I'll refer to it as the high back/open angle/lean into the back configuration. In many ways it resembles your current set up.



    Then there is this Razorblade that used to belong to a CareCure member who's configuration sounds closer to what your therapist wanted you to try (If you know the end user and his opinion of therapists, the irony of this is hilarious !). When you consider he is a taller user who sits in a Stimulite cushion that compresses minimally, the relative back height would be significantly lower for this user. The COG is slightly more aggressive, the rear STF height is similar, and the seat angle is roughly the same. I'll call this the medium back height/nearly 90 degree/over the top configuration...



    Either set up might work for a C-6-ish quad without triceps. Both have rear STF heights in the 14.5-15" range and seat angles of 13-15.degrees. Both also allow the person to keep their head in a slightly posterior orientation. The combination of seat angle and posterior head orientation provide trunk stability and reduce the tendency to jackknife forward when pushing the chair.

    Both setups allow the front of the chair to be reasonably light. The effective COG of the high back/open angle chair is father back that the spec'd COG. It relies on a supportive high back for this to work. Too low a back or too much sag in the upholstery and one could be back on the anti-tips or staring at the ceiling quickly. This is a good application of the 16" ADI CF back for this very reason. If the higher rigid back is not reclined enough, however, the user feels like they will jacknife forward.

    The low back/near 90/over the top approach allows the rear axle to be moved forward to keep the front of the chair light. The back provides support to the pelvis and bottom few ribs to block the pelvis, but the user probably leans slightly over the top of the upholstery to keep their head back. If the back is too high or too rigid at this angle the user might jackknife forward.

    As I said either setup can work. While a 105 degree back angle sounds extreme, in reality, it is equal to the seat angle (i.e. the ZRA2's back posts are perpendicular to the seat rail). In essence it is taking a seating system that provides 90/90/90 positioning and rotating it in space ~15 degrees.

    Each configuration has its advantages. Todd Hargroder from ADI uses a setup similar to the ZRA2. fuente can tell you a thing or two about the Razorblade.

    The key to efficiency is to have the right handrim access and the necessary trunk stability to use the muscles that are strong enough for efficient quad self-propulsion. Either setup can do that, so the deciding factor may be the specific methods you have found work best in order to perform other functional tasks.

    Your therapist shouldn't need to be convinced of anything since it looks like you are paying of of pocket. Maybe additional discussion may bring about consensus. It is your therapist's responsibility to ensure your are aware of any adverse effects that your current setup might have over the long haul, but they should also be ensuring that you can use the chair efficiently and do what you need to be able to do on a daily basis. At the end of the day, however, it will be your chair and you need to be able to function in it. The ultimate decision is yours.
    Last edited by SCI_OTR; 08-30-2012 at 07:47 AM.


  10. #10
    I'd also recommend trying Q grip hand rims instead of plastic coated.


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