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Thread: Definition of a cure

  1. #11
    Unreal Wise, thats what I encounter all the time too. I think some of these people are behind the times just a little bit. The Year I was injured (1981, 23 years ago) was the year it was proven that a cure was possible only it was said we still have yet to learn how to make it a reality. Everybody thought I was totally off my rocker then though as I talked about a Cure for SCI and Wheeled around the Hospital Rehab with magnets strapped to my back at the injury site.

    Just out of curiousity, where any of these Scientists or Clinicians SCI themselves?

  2. #12
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    ilsidur-
    not the best analogy. Guillian-Barre' is a walk in the park compared to SCI. Full recovery with intense rehab is the norm, Doctors give a much, much better prognosis and recovery is expected. With complete SCI it's pack it in and don't waste your time trying to reverse the irreversible.

    sherman brayton

  3. #13
    Dr. Young, most doctors and researchers will not set the goals and definition for a cure. They are not bad men or women, they are just average like most of us. The cure will be found by a few that will not give up and are not afraid of a few setbacks along the way. If all your colleagues believed in a cure and understood the definition, doctors like yourself would not be needed. P.S. please remember the Wright's first flight needed a 25 MPH head wind, catapault, and two men running along side the wings to get off the ground. This is recognized as man's first powered flight. However, if the FAA was back there with the Wright brothers, the flight would have been listed as a failure and we may have never gotten off the ground. The definition of the cure is much like the first flight. Perhaps the definition will change as our treatments get better and faster. Let's have one flight with one man and then try for the jumbo jets. The rest will follow if you show the way.

  4. #14
    Dr. Young, most doctors and researchers are normal men and women and will not set such lofty goals such as a cure for SCI. Most are content working 8 to 5 and having a long weekend.

    [This message was edited by EAA on 05-30-04 at 10:52 PM.]

  5. #15
    Senior Member Janet McDonald's Avatar
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    EAA, I wouldn't compare the Wright brother's first flight with the Definition of a cure...It's true the achievements in Neuroscience over the last thirty years is like traveling with a coach drawn by horses to go to a space lab. It is incredible. Though it is not good enough yet....to hold on this picture...they could not avoid Columbia tragedy. We would need to know what an implanted nerve cell is doing in the human spinal cord.
    In order for the neurons to do anything meaningful, they must make synapses (connections) with other neurons or muscle. In order from the brain to affect the neurons, there must be growth of axons to contact the newly made neurons.
    Martin Schwab discovered the inhibiting factor for axonal growth in the CNS about twenty years ago...since that time he is working on how to make this factor ineffective and to support axonal growth.... he seems to be proceeding. I have been told that he started human trials (the restoring capacity in rodents is higher and not directly comparative). These cells have to find the connection up to the brain to get maneuvered in the right targets, which seemingly cannot be controlled or influenced yet.

    Some more obstacles:
    • Kickstarting the axons. Axons often sprout vigorously in the days that follow injury but eventually go dormant when they fail to get anywhere. It may be necessary to use some growath factor to kickstart growth. Neurotrophins such as BDNF, NT-3, NGF, and GDNF are used for this purpose.
    • Bridging. Cell transplants have turned out to provide suitable bridges across the injury site. Schwann cells (they promote axonal growth in peripheral nerves) tend to stay where they have been injected because the central nervous system regards them to be peripheral tissues and they do not migrate well or far. Olfactory ensheathing glial cells, on the other hand, tend to migrate and can be injected into the surrounding cord.
    • Blocking growth inhibitors. One can block the growth inhibitors (Nogo) with an antibody, block the axon receptors to Nogo, or block the intracellular messenger system that mediates the growth inhibition (blocking rho kinase or elevating cAMP). As it turns out, the Nogo receptor is sensitive to not only Nogo but MAG and CSPG.
    • Growing all the way. Most of the time, we hope that the axons will continue growing once they get across the other side and are no longer responding to growth inhibitors. However, this may not be the case. We have been using the cell adhesion molecule L1 to promote long-distance regrowth of axons.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Kaprikorn1's Avatar
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    Wise...so then because I can walk unassisted now I am cured? What do I do about having to cath, do BP and not have sex?

    Kap

    "It's not easy being green"

  7. #17
    Kap, the FDA demands that SCI therapies lead to the restoration of independent locomotion first and foremost. This is one of the reasons therapies aimed at restoring b/b/s function only are under prioritized and probably receive less support and funding.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Duran's Avatar
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    I have been told that he started human trials (the restoring capacity in rodents is higher and not directly comparative).
    Piela, how credible is this information please? Where did you hear that Schwab's group already began to do the trial?

    Joe

  9. #19
    Quote:"However, they think that the word should not be used because they are not convinced that there will be any therapies that can restore function."

    True, and what drives me nuts is that most people with spinal cord injuries don't believe it can happen either and further they claim they don't care if it happens or not.

    Why bother curing it then?? Because a few people like me HATE it - perhaps that makes me more of a hero for putting up with it for so long than the guys who don't mind sci and are put up as role models? (geeez, I'm bitter LOL)

    Quote: "Kap, the FDA demands that SCI therapies lead to the restoration of independent locomotion first and foremost. This is one of the reasons therapies aimed at restoring b/b/s function only are under prioritized and probably receive less support and funding."

    NAH - I reckon the real cure warriors like Wise Young (and there are others) know that ALL the lost functions are important - the limiting factor might be whether some types nerves can't regenerate as easily as others

    BUT - I was once told the spinal cord isn't like a telephone network as is often described - a small percentage of nerves will handle all the functions - if you add the same number of nerves again they will act as a feedback system to "check" the information and so on and so on, until you get apparent redundancy or what appears to be massive "over-wiring" in the human nervous system - but that is what makes normal walking look so smooth and, to me who can't, beautiful.

    If we get a small percentage of nerves back we'll have to work hard on all the functions because we will have less feedback circuits - trouble is I'm lazy

  10. #20
    Kap,

    Yesterday in the chatroom, I came up with a new twist regarding the definition of the cure. For some men, the cure would be when a woman in bed cannot tell the difference. For others, maybe only your urologist will be able to tell.

    Let us remember what the word "cure" means. According to the Webster Online, cure means:
    http://www.websters-online-dictionar...h/cu/cure.html
    Cure
    Noun

    1. A medicine or therapy that cures disease or relieve pain.
    Verb

    1. Provide a cure for, make healthy again.

    2. Prepare by chemical processing in order to preserve; "cure meats".

    Source: WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.


    Date "cure" was first used: 13th century. (references)

    Note: Cure \Cure\, transitive verb. [imperfect & past participle. Cured; Curing.]. (Websters 1913)
    The original use of the word suggest a remedy for a problem, to sooth, to relieve symptoms. People use to talk about "taking the cure" in a hotspring. It was not until the 1960's when the cure was considered to be a treatment that eradicated a particular condition. The 1913 Webster's definition of cure is of particular interest for comparison:

    Pronunciation: k
    n. 1. Care, heed, or attention.
    Of study took he most cure and most heed.
    - Chaucer.
    Vicarages of greatcure, but small value.
    - Fuller.
    2. Spiritual charge; care of soul; the office of a parish priest or of a curate; hence, that which is committed to the charge of a parish priest or of a curate; a curacy; as, to resign a cure; to obtain a cure.
    The appropriator was the incumbent parson, and had the cure of the souls of the parishioners.
    - Spelman.
    3. Medical or hygienic care; remedial treatment of disease; a method of medical treatment; as, to use the water cure.
    4. Act of healing or state of being healed; restoration to health from disease, or to soundness after injury.
    Past hope! pastcure! past help.
    - Shak.
    I do cures to-day and to-morrow.
    - Luke xii. 32.
    5. Means of the removal of disease or evil; that which heals; a remedy; a restorative.
    Cold, hunger, prisons, ills without a cure.
    - Dryden.
    The proper cure of such prejudices.
    - Bp. Hurd.
    v. t. 1. To heal; to restore to health, soundness, or sanity; to make well; - said of a patient.
    [imp. & p. p. Cured (kūrd); p. pr. & vb. n. Curing.]
    The child was cured from that very hour.
    - Matt. xvii. 18.
    2. To subdue or remove by remedial means; to remedy; to remove; to heal; - said of a malady.
    To cure this deadly grief.
    - Shak.
    Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power . . . to cure diseases.
    - Luke ix. 1.
    3. To set free from (something injurious or blameworthy), as from a bad habit.
    I never knew any man cured of inattention.
    - Swift.
    4. To prepare for preservation or permanent keeping; to preserve, as by drying, salting, etc.; as, to cure beef or fish; to cure hay.
    v. i. 1. To pay heed; to care; to give attention.
    2. To restore health; to effect a cure.
    Whose smile and frown, like to Achilles' spear,
    Is able with the change to kill and cure.
    - Shak.
    3. To become healed.
    One desperate grief cures with another's languish.
    - Shak.
    n. 1. A curate; a pardon.
    http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/cure

    Wise.

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